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Y'all know what is REALLY dumb about all this At least IMHO?
That is, WHY those not from the Southern states -- or of Southern ancestry and/or heritage -- even make such a big production about it at all...?/
It is kinda funny (not ha-ha funny, but strange) how those South-basher types who always accuse Southerners of "still fighting the War"...are the almost ALWAYS the ones who start threads like this
Who started this thread?
And it appears that several of us non-sympathizers are from the South, with Confederate ancestors. I have ancestors who fought onboth sides - and all Southerners. One is buried at Chickamauga, CSA. Another fought at Tunnel Hill close to home, and elsewhere. Pacifist ones were impressed by the CSA to work on the railroads. Don't act like all who don't worship the Lost Cause (aka Southern Rebellion) are damn Yankees.
Those ignorant farmers may have started out believing the propaganda of the wealthy white land owners, who convinced them to fight in order to maintain freedom from Northern aggression.
Well, every country and movement in history has produced propaganda, though I'm sure it wasn't the reason my Kentucky ancestor joined the Confederate Army. That is a mighty ignorant and sweeping statement you made.
However any fool who read the charters of succession from Southern States knew exactly why the Land Owners wanted a war. They wanted to maintain their ability to use human beings as cattle.
SECESSION IT IS SPELLED S-E-C-E-S-S-I-O-N, and I'm aware of their declarations of Secession, only 4 mention slavery, and roughly 3 mention secondary issues to seceding. South Carolina's mentions that the North is being antagonistic over it, and it will never lead to a peaceful conclusion otherwise. Georgia mentions tariffs, Texas mentions protection from the Comanches, slavery wasn't the singular issue of the War, no war is ever fought over 1 single issue.
They were willing to dissolve this country in order to maintain their wealth and status.
That's just your opinion, as Thomas Jefferson said, every people has their right to revolution.
Thank God they lost and I would gladly **** on their headstones if I could.
And I can see your historical credence quickly circling the toilet.
No governmental entity came down south threatening to take any farms.
Nobody said they were.
No governmental entity came down south threatening to take away any rights, except those to enslave people.
Why in the flying Hell do you think Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas, and to a lesser extent, Kentucky and Missouri seceded for? They thought the North was going to coerce the Deep South through military force!
No governmental entity came down south and threatened to make white people into what they forced Black People to live under.
Nobody said they were.
The South fought to maintain an Land where racial degradations, humiliation, and cruelty were the norm.
The same land to and of racial degredation that afflicted the Sioux, Navajo and Blackfoot in the west? The same land that enacted the first Jim Crow Laws in the Midwest? Where in the world WASN'T cruel to blacks or minorities in general back then?
Were they Heroes???...of course they were, to White Supremacist, Racist, Low Bred Whites, and to Traitors of the U.S.A.
Okay, that's just idocy masquerading as history, if your going to debate the Civil War at least be civil with it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
Obviously someone went and cried to the Mods over a couple of my posts, even though the posts were factual.
So I ask this question again, why are we making a post celebrating the Confederacy???...is there an agenda here???.
The Confederacy despised Blacks, Italians, and Jews, among others. This hatred of other people was one of the foundations of "southern society".
Now, there was an incident in which the people of the "southern society" aka Confederates decided that "Northern Jews" had to be taught their place in the South. They used one incident in particular to get this message out that the "Confederacy" was alive and kicking.
Reconmark, this happened in 1915, long after the CSA was just a memory how does that relate to Confederate policy? All this incident was, was just a town got thrown into a frenzy at the closest suspect to the death of a little girl, him being Jewish may have contributed, but it still doesn't reflect on the ACTUAL Jews who served under the Confederate Flag.
If you want the story ask Mary Phagan the o.p. of this post.
Well when you tell us where the Hell this "utopian society" is that never had a lick of violence or hatred then please tell me, because The US, Mexico, and pretty much everywhere else in the world is where it is NOT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
If a misspelled word proves your point then I've been proved wrong, if a misspelled word doesn't prove your point then it just means someone was being a boorish ass...you tell me???
Well if your going to pull your grown up shoes on and discuss the War Between the States you better learn the difference between "Secession" and "Succession" because they are by definition completely different things.
Now comes the silly assed excuse.."oh, we only imported slaves to the South because the Northerners forced us to"..really.
Where do you get this assertion?
The South was so spineless they couldn't refuse the importation of human chattel onto privately owned southern farms...Jesus will the deflection ever cease??
Enough to where the South was just happy with outlawing the Trans-Atlantic slave trade in the Confederate States Constitution.
UHHmm, exactly which Northern States are celebrating chattel slavery???...right, NONE!!!
You see much of the wealth that places like Philidelphia, New York and Boston retained? Well somewhere back down the road somebody somewhere got the wiley idea of selling somebody to somebody else, I don't expect you to understand that with the Dumbassery your posting here.
Northern slavery is a topic for another thread, it's only brought up by you as a half assed attempt at justifying the backwards society that chose to succeed from the country, turn traitorous, and treat people lower then animals.
Secede, and no, nobody was brought up on treason charges, you fail again.
All this to maintain wealth and a false sense of racial superiority.
Uh Huh, and where WASN'T this racial superiority complex back then?
Now, you can go debate with someone else about taxes, importation and all the other revisionist crap you want to, that purports to justify treason.
We aren't denying anything, you don't seem intellegently capable of understanding the facts.
I'm not foolish enough to debate whether fire is hot enough, and I'm not foolish enough to debate that the South wasn't a society of bigots and selfish whites who wanted to maintain a kingdom based on human toil.
By that logic you better be taking down the American flag and at least all of the different state flags. No state was bloodless, where wasn't the bigots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
Actually, I'm not some inbred bigot that believes taking the screen name, that celebrated the torture and lynching of an innocent man was an honorable deed.
Even if Mary is right or not in her handle isn't the right way to debate it by calling everybody who disagrees with you and inbred idiot.
Actually my screen name doesn't celebrate Southern whites getting back at the "filthy northern Jew"
Stick to the point Recon.
Actually my screen name doesn't celebrate the white men who became prominent southerners after undermining their own judicial system. Leo Frank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You scream about what happens and what happened in Michigan if you freaking hate it so much.
So why don't you tell us the reason for this screen name??
Yeah, pretty much smacks of a low bred white person.
"You don't agree with me, so you're white trash", is that the gist of it Recon?
Pissing on their traitors headstones is a lot more merciful than most of their "heroric" deeds!!
M'hmn, mark of the jackass.
Fort Pillow Massacre
Another officer of the unit, however, and the only surviving officers of the 13th Tennessee Cavalry attested to the characterization that unarmed soldiers were killed in the act of surrendering. However, a Confederate sergeant, in a letter written home shortly after the battle said that "the poor, deluded negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hand scream for mercy, but were ordered to their feet and then shot down."[14] This account is consistent with the relatively high comparative casualties sustained by race of the defenders.
The blacks and their officers were shot down, bayoneted and put to the sword in cold blood... . Out of four hundred negro soldiers only about twenty survive! At least three hundred of them were destroyed after the surrender! This is the statement of the rebel General Chalmers himself to our informant.[
On April 17, 1864, in the aftermath of Fort Pillow, Grant ordered General Benjamin F. Butler, who was negotiating prisoner exchanges with the Confederacy, to demand that in the exchange and treatment of prisoners, black prisoners had to be treated identically to whites. A failure to do so would "be regarded as a refusal on their part to agree to the further exchange of prisoners, and [would] be so treated by us."[20] This demand was refused and Confederate Secretary of War Seddon in June 1864 stated the confederate position:
I doubt, however, whether the exchange of negroes at all for our soldiers would be tolerated. As to the white officers serving with negro troops, we ought never to be inconvenienced with such prisoners.[21] Battle of Fort Pillow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yeah, I'd **** on their treasonous graves!!!
Even though Fort Pillow was a beast of a controversy, Forrest the commanding Confederate officer there was aquitted of any wrongdoing (so far as I know), his men were known to be frenzied and wild, it was a tragic event. But it doesn't warrant pissing on anything. Yank.
Actually I would consider some people too ignorant to know the difference between "Detroit" and "Metro Detroit Area"
And I wouldn't care, you probably wouldn't be able to tell me where "Tevis, Arizona" used to be, or what Phoenix, Arizona was ORIGINALLY going to be called.
Tell you what, come to Bloomfield, Mi and compare it to where you live. Then let's talk about filthy cities..
Soon to be deleted as "off topic".
And I hope so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
As the saying goes, it's usually the white women that claim not to be attracted to black men, that can't wait for sundown.
Yep, I got your boy...
And I don't apologise for all the loyal Americans that are pissing on traitors headstones..
Good God, can you stay on topic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
Actually I won't be reading much of the links you provided.
I don't rationalise rape.
I don't rationalise murder.
I don't rationalise drug use.
So I don't listen to fools who rationalise slavery, murder, kidnapping, torture, and treason.
YOU Heah?...
And you thus keep yourself in the bile pit of self imposed ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
So a little girl was murdered and that justified southern whites to torture and lynch an innocent man??
That gave southern white the "legal" excuse to undermine the judicial system of this country, and extract mob violence??
That gave Southern whites the excuse to perpetuate the slurs and insults to Jewish people??
That gave Southern whites the priveledge of being rewarded with social position and stus after murdering??
Southern Whites, doing what comes natural.
According to The New York Times, one of the onlookers, Robert E. Lee Howell - related to Clark Howell, editor of The Atlanta Constitution — wanted to have the body cut into pieces and burned, and began to run around, screaming, whipping up the mob. Judge Newt Morris tried to restore order, and asked for a vote on whether the body should be returned to the parents intact; only Howell disagreed. When the body was cut down, Howell started stamping on Frank's face and chest; Morris quickly placed the body in a basket, and he and his driver John Stephens Wood drove it out of Marietta.[54]
Yeah, we can see the source of your pride.
Ugh, you aren't helping your case by appearing more jackassish and bigoted than you already are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough
Really? You mean the slave owners in the South believed that African slaves were created equal to them and that they had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
Did the founding fathers? No they didn't, they decided to kick the can down the road.
You mean you forget that the Southern traitors started the war by bombarding a sovereign United States military installation?
Even though you know, Union ships had been attacking Confederate sea fortifications since, what, that previous January? If you declared independence and the party you seceded from is constantly poking you in the eye by resupplying the very thing that could choke your native harbor out militarily, I'd be pretty swayed to attack.
You mean that owning, selling, raping, and and working human beings without compensation is your idea of humanitarian and Christian treatment?
Applying modern morality to 1860s people I see, your unsaveable.
You apologists for slavery and treason make me sick.
Call me a traitor all you want, you know what, call my ancestor who fought alongside this guy:
This guy:
And this guy:
At different points during the war (1862 and 1863 for the first two, and briefly in 1863 for the last guy, who I seriously doubt you have the capacity of learning about) and call him a traitor, I dare you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot
What makes soldiers, whether in the Civil War or WWII, exempt from the moral compass which guides the rest of us? Why is it okay for a "soldier" to commit war crimes and still be "honored" and "respected"....
Because over periods of time, moral compasses tend to change. Because they lived in an entirely different world and system from us, it is logically a fallacy to compare us to them on the same level.
IMO, honoring the Confederate soldiers is sending the wrong message. The Southern heritage of slavery is nothing to be proud of.
Neither is the Northern, but you don't see New Yorkers tearing up the harbor because of a "Wrong message".
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
Proof that a husband and father should not be the same person!!!
So your contention is that his "due process" and "the law of the land" was to kidnap him out of the control of the judicial system, take him to the woods and murder him??!!
No wonder you think a failed insurrection was glorious..
Yeah, your unsaveable, you have no appreciation for history outside of the sadly narrow view of the world you live in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot
Huh? The South is also home to stormfront.
Which that dumbass David Duke started, but then again the Klan tends to be very popular in the midwest, as are Neo-Nazis in the Pacific Northwest.
So what is your point besides "hurr hurr, South is evil, South is America's cancer" and other unsubstantiated BS?
And it appears that several of us non-sympathizers are from the South, with Confederate ancestors. I have ancestors who fought onboth sides - and all Southerners. One is buried at Chickamauga, CSA. Another fought at Tunnel Hill close to home, and elsewhere. Pacifist ones were impressed by the CSA to work on the railroads. Don't act like all who don't worship the Lost Cause (aka Southern Rebellion) are damn Yankees.
I'm just glad that most of us in this area feel very differently than you.I will be at Chickamauga in the days to come to visit my own ancestor.One of the flags I will be putting on a grave I hope will be your ancestor. your ancestor was a valiant and brave soul indeed
LMAO. Maybe or maybe not...but the worst race riot in modern day American history was in Detroit, right?
Are you for REAL?
Your ignorance shines once again.
Where did the most white people to move to Detroit come from???..yep the south.
Which police department actively recruited from the southern klan...yep, the Detroit Police dept.
Where did the racist organizations in Detroit hail from...yep, the south!!!
Thanks so much for importing your ignorance up north.
Oh speaking of Mary Phagan and her love of lynch mob killing Jews.
I guess you people can't help yourselves no matter where you go!!!
The gang that killed Poole was part of the Black Legion, and the triggerman was Dayton Dean, an employee of the Detroit Public Lighting Department and, by all accounts, a man who simply lived for violence. As such, Dean fit the profile of the Black Legion, whose propensity for violence, as one contemporary observed, made the Ku Klux Klan look like a cream puff.
By and large, the typical Black Legionaire was a lower-class, Anglo-Saxon male, poorly educated with few industrial skills, and were Southerners transplanted to the Detroit area during the heyday of the city's industrial growth during the 1920s
We regard as enemies to ourselves and our country all aliens, Negroes, Jews and cults and creeds believing in racial equality or owing allegiance to any foreign potentates. These we will fight without fear or favor as long as one foe of American liberty is left alive."
Hoover, one special agent described the Legion as “a bunch of low-type hillbillies who have come out of the mountains of Kentucky and Tennessee … it is easy to see how they would kill with impunity just on the violation of a woman.â€
And it appears that several of us non-sympathizers are from the South, with Confederate ancestors. I have ancestors who fought onboth sides - and all Southerners. One is buried at Chickamauga, CSA. Another fought at Tunnel Hill close to home, and elsewhere. Pacifist ones were impressed by the CSA to work on the railroads. Don't act like all who don't worship the Lost Cause (aka Southern Rebellion) are damn Yankees.
Read back over carefully what I wrote before you presume to make surmises.
Uhhhh, I said -- clearly -- that most threads of this nature are started by those who have -- to some degree or another -- a deep seated hatred of the South...or just else dont know "jackmac" (pun intended!) about Southern history.
Read that and get back to me, ok?
Also? The fact you had Confederate ancestors doesn't bestow upon you any special credentials, any more than it does me.
The important thing, really? Is not what YOU think of them, but what THEY would think of YOU, today. Ever look at it from THAT angle?
They are not around to defend themselves... so forgive me if I am just not super impressed with your judgement of them...
Okay, that's just idocy masquerading as history, if your going to debate the Civil War at least be civil with it!
Well when you tell us where the Hell this "utopian society" is that never had a lick of violence or hatred then please tell me, because The US, Mexico, and pretty much everywhere else in the world is where it is NOT.
By that logic you better be taking down the American flag and at least all of the different state flags. No state was bloodless, where wasn't the bigots?
And I hope so.
Good God, can you stay on topic?
And you thus keep yourself in the bile pit of self imposed ignorance.
Ugh, you aren't helping your case by appearing more jackassish and bigoted than you already are.
Call me a traitor all you want, you know what, call my ancestor who fought alongside this guy:
This guy:
And this guy:
At different points during the war (1862 and 1863 for the first two, and briefly in 1863 for the last guy, who I seriously doubt you have the capacity of learning about) and call him a traitor, I dare you.
Neither is the Northern, but you don't see New Yorkers tearing up the harbor because of a "Wrong message".
Yeah, your unsaveable, you have no appreciation for history outside of the sadly narrow view of the world you live in.
Which that dumbass David Duke started, but then again the Klan tends to be very popular in the midwest, as are Neo-Nazis in the Pacific Northwest.
So what is your point besides "hurr hurr, South is evil, South is America's cancer" and other unsubstantiated BS?
Come back when you have anything to contribute.....this doesn't constitute a contribution.
I'm just glad that most of us in this area feel very differently than you.I will be at Chickamauga in the days to come to visit my own ancestor.One of the flags I will be putting on a grave I hope will be your ancestor. your ancestor was a valiant and brave soul indeed
And what about the many Tennesseans who fought for or supported the Union?
Read back over carefully what I wrote before you presume to make surmises.
Uhhhh, I said -- clearly -- that most threads of this nature are started by those who have -- to some degree or another -- a deep seated hatred of the South...or just else dont know "jackmac" (pun intended!) about Southern history.
Read that and get back to me, ok?
Also? The fact you had Confederate ancestors doesn't bestow upon you any special credentials, any more than it does me.
The important thing, really? Is not what YOU think of them, but what THEY would think of YOU, today. Ever look at it from THAT angle?
They are not around to defend themselves... so forgive me if I am just not super impressed with your judgement of them...
Yes, they would probably spit in your face if you ever stated to them that you thought Black People and Jews, or Asians were equal human beings.
That these people should have the right to go to school, marry whom ever they wanted or vote.
They would have disowned you for suggesting that these people should enjoy the same constitutional rights as you do.
Oh lord, what those southern ancestors would have had in store for you!!!
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The South is also home to stormfront.
