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And, just what do you think dead bodies mean to them? Something special? Something to honor and respect?
Bodies are just meat, nothing of any consequence or importance.
My point is: they were dead. It was over. The dead did not know they were being urinated on.
Our soldiers could have walked away with their dignity. Instead, they became their own enemy.
There are a lot more psychopaths who come out of Infantry combat than go into it.
I agree and disagree at the same time. I think we all went to school or grew up with bullies, sociopaths, weirdos, and mindless followers who would do whatever asked of them by a stronger personality. I could think of about a dozen or so guys from my old neighborhood who I could think of doing something like this without the combat experience or military training. Not everything like this is a "Oh, you need to be put in their shoes to understand it". Some people are just immature and a bit twisted.
But I do agree that combat changes people. Some of the vets I know show obvious symptoms of PTSD and just plain old "I have seen more death, injury, and destruction in one/two/three years than you would see in ten lifetimes". The ones I know are actually pretty nice guys, but they have a--I guess you could it "spark"--that gives me the impression that I would not want to be on their bad side.
Don't worry. The Marine Corps has launched an official investigation, which means they'll hang those guys as a sop to the opinions of those who have never been there. Screw the troops...we gotta look good.
While I don't think they should have their lives ruined over this (I'll give them the benefit of a doubt and assume that their circumstance played at least some role); a statement has to be made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
I just don't see how peeing on those guys is going to rile them up any more than oh....killing them.
Not necessarily. A lot of people can understand killing an enemy soldier in wartime. It's kind of what they are there for. But actions like torture or rape or desecrating dead bodies it really distasteful for a lot of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
Every military has it's disciplinary problems. These are a few troops out of thousands.
I don't know why we have to lose our mind every time we find out that human beings are not perfect like we expect them to be.
Without a doubt. The US military has over 1.3 million people. There are obviously going to be a few bad apples. However, even if 99% of the military is decent and honorable that would still leave more than 13,000 scumbags who can easily tarnish the reputation of the entire armed forces.
I should also add, that I have repeated attacked the Taliban and other enemies of the US for their human rights violations, treatment of POWs, and for their treatment of the dead (it's not like members of the Taliban or Iraqi Resistance haven't urinated on dead American soldiers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mt-7
do not judge, you are not there.
Sorry, but this line of reasoning means f--k all to me. There are plenty of things that I have no experienced nor you have experienced. Have you experienced a childhood like Henry Lee Lucas or Charles Manson? Who would you be to judge people who had their drunken mothers' rent them out to pedophiles and beat them for sport? Obviously, having their formative years under such conditions completely absolves them for anything they did. Or what about the Khmer Rouge? I mean, they were merely doing what they were told and what they thought was right. Blah blah blah.
I spent my time in Quang Nam Province carrying the "pig" myself and this kind of stuff doesn't bother me too much. Soldiers will do things like that because...well...soldiers do things like that. It's a part of the dark humor they need to survive.
You may all find it repellant, but that's the price we pay when we send young men and women out to do the barbaric things they do in our name. Then, when the psychological consequences of what they do exacts it's terrible toll and they turn into barbarian's, we're shocked. Since most people have not seen what combat does to people, and their only experience with war is "Saving Private Ryan," they can't understand that THIS IS WHAT YOU GET.
Don't like it? Don't send someone else off to war. Before you so easily condemn those young men from your heated and padded recliners, go yourself and see what YOU are capable of doing.
Exactly! We don't know the whole story. They could have just lost two of their closest buddies to these animals ten minutes before the video was taken. The only mistake here was videotaping it.
Exactly! We don't know the whole story. They could have just lost two of their closest buddies to these animals ten minutes before the video was taken. The only mistake here was videotaping it.
It doesn't matter what the whole story is. There is an honor code that every man and woman in the service is expected to follow, even in the worst combat zones.
My point is: they were dead. It was over. The dead did not know they were being urinated on.
Our soldiers could have walked away with their dignity. Instead, they became their own enemy.
How can you pass judgement on these soldiers without knowing what they have been through? If you are trying to kill me and I get you first, I might spit on you after the fact in a show of emotion. What does it serve? Maybe nothing in the grand scheme of things but it may be an emotional outlet for me.
It doesn't matter what the whole story is. There is an honor code that every man and woman in the service is expected to follow, even in the worst combat zones.
There is no excuse, none, for what those men did.
Have you ever been in war? My father served in Vietnam and he told me a few stories that were horrible about his buddies getting killed by the VC. He said, seeing what he saw made him lose his faith and religion. He also said that he owed it to his buddies to get some payback everytime he was in the bush! War is hell. It's that simple. You cut off one of my guys ears and pin it to a tree. We cut off a head and swing it from a rope. There is nothing civil about war.
How can you pass judgement on these soldiers without knowing what they have been through? If you are trying to kill me and I get you first, I might spit on you after the fact in a show of emotion. What does it serve? Maybe nothing in the grand scheme of things but it may be an emotional outlet for me.
That is something directly in the heat of the moment. The Marines in question gathered around in front of the camera to pull out their tiny penises and take a leak on some dead bodies while laughing. Hardly some in the heat of the moment act of disgust more like immature sickos showing off and trying to act macho.
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