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Well, I know personally, blacks get defensive when statistics are brought up. If it doesn't apply to you, why are you worried about it? You can't have a civilized discussion with a white person about such things? I don't judge anyone until I see how they behave. I have no problem with you if you're not adding to the problem. If you are adding to the problem, in any situation, if you're any race, I DO have a problem with you. Just worry about yourself and you'll be fine. You're basically doing what the OP said to not do.
I worry because some people will use those statistics, and apply them to the entire Black population. There are people who take those statistics, and then use them to justify their own prejudice, people who say "I avoid Black people because they're dangerous to be around". That can affect me in a way. I have personally heard someone say they would not hire Blacks because "they cause problems". I heard this on a forum thread one day. It is stuff like this I'm worried about. There are people who base their decisions solely on the statistics and not the individuals. People use statistics to justify racial profiling. If I'm not breaking the law, then how does racial profiling help ME?
In the second link, there is an excerpt that said this: "You want to stop crime in America? Create a police state that profiles and targets Black people - law abiding or not." Stuff like that scares me because I have me to look out for.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Perhaps. However, with alot of things involving being defensive, this is what I think. I don't believe it is an unwillingness to face certain problems. It if often a matter of not wanting to discuss it publicly. There are many Black people who do see that there are problems and acknowledge them. However, this is what I see. Bill Cosby is willing to publicly say it. Walter Williams will publicly say it. Thomas Sowell will publicly say it. However, I would say the defensiveness is more a matter of many Blacks don't want to publicly discuss these issues. Black people have been made fun of, stereotyped, and treated badly over the last 300 years. I think the biggest issue is trust. Some people don't want to talk about certain problems publicly because of trust issues.
Good points, and no doubt there are plenty of folks who are only too happy to use any such public 'self-analysis' as further "ammunition".
BTW, speaking of Sowell, no doubt you're also familiar with his ideas that rural white underclass culture (aka "rednecks") and urban black culture (aka, the "ghetto") both basically share much the same values and traditions, descended from Southern ante-bellum underclass culture. And I would take it a step further, and suggest nearly all those values are basically the same ones descended from the Scot-Irish (aka, 'Ulster-Scots') who first largely colonized the South, and have since spread to similar other rural (red state) parts of the country. IMO, the infamous 'Culture Wars' are specifically designed to 'speak' to them and their values.
The fact is, the majority of people who blather on about some statistic or other about black people, do so explicitly because they want to apply the negative part of the statistic to every black person without any further consideration. Yes, black people are fully aware that black people are disproportionally violent. We're also disproportionally the victims of violence, yet strangely, most people feel no desire to bring that second fact up when they decide to harass the black person in the nice car, or to run away from the black guy in the business suit. And unlike the folks that just want to run away or follow us around in stores, or call the cops because we were walking down a streets, we're the ones actively working to lower the crime rate. Sorry, you're black, so you're guilty.
Yes, we're also aware that black people are in poverty. But we also recognize that most white families have been helped out by our governments in ways that most black families are not, that employers discriminate against black job applicants en masse, and that this has an obvious effect on the long-standing differentials in poverty and joblessness. And so, instead of screeching about Affirmative Action or welfare or demanding Mitt Romney's "real" birth certificate, we build mentorship programs, we help one another out, the same way white people do.
I'm sorry, but if we want an actual intelligent discussion on race, then we also need to discuss white people - as well as Asians, Native Americans, and so forth. And when it comes to crime, in the moral sense (including genocide, slavery, internments camps, violation of rights, and so forth), my feeling is that white folks are going to lose, big.
I wish there was an icon that would roll around laughing. You are missing the entire point and making quite a few generalizations of your own.
A couple things I do feel the need to address: blacks are not the victims of crimes committed by whites, by and large, it is from black on black crime, so crying "victim!" in this discussion only makes your side look worse. Second, nobody is harassing black people in nice cars or running from black men in business suits. What planet do you live on? It doesn't sound very fun there. Continue feeling sorry for yourself, it will get you nowhere. You have only yourself to blame for your problems, no matter what race you are.
Yes, the question is do you know what I am saying? Low skilled jobs that paid relatively well and allowed employees to gain valuable skills in the job market were extremely important for the formation of socioeconomic progress.
Low skilled jobs get outsourced. Keep up or become jobless, it's a very simple concept. If blacks disproportionately cannot keep up, why should that be blamed on whites? Although I will point out that there are many white people who also held those jobs and the rust belt is not doing so well right now as a whole.
Your cry of "racism" speaks volumes about who the real racist is.
I don't know if your numbers for Milwaukee are credible, but I do know that when the more successful public school systems are compared to the least successful public school systems money is a difference.
Feel free to question me, it's simple google searching.
Yes, I do need an explanation for made up things like generational attitudes.
People who are poor because they have a child were already poor before the child or very near poor before the child. So having children or not doesn't change very much. In fact, statistically speaking the reason so many Americans are willing to work crap jobs year after year is because of their children.
Working hard doesn't mean you'll get ahead in life. The reality is that people who make low wages tend to continue to make low wages.
Are you helpless? You need to be looking this stuff up on your own instead of playing dumb.
S: (n) attitude, mental attitude (a complex mental state involving beliefs and feelings and values and dispositions to act in certain ways) "he had the attitude that work was fun"
Do you need me to define generational poverty as well? It's when people are poor generation after generation after generation. Same with attitudes. Like the poor attitudes toward whites that some blacks pass down to each subsequent generation. Like the attitudes about society in general, attitudes toward work and education, attitudes about their dang ATTITUDE toward everybody else.
Any questions?
Of course people are poor before they have children when they are 18 years old. 18 year olds are not equipped to have children in this day and age. Finish high school and get a good job, get a wife and hopefully get a house. If you can do all that by 18, you probably can afford (financially and emotionally) to have a child. We should not be excusing children born out of wedlock and multiple accidental pregnancies that lead to chronic use of welfare in any race.
Working hard means you work your way up in the company. If you want to achieve a higher position, it can happen if you master whatever your current position is and then apply for a promotion. Is it really that hard to comprehend how this occurs?
Actually, you don't know that for a fact. Being enslaved is not proof of being "dumb" or "weak". Alot of slaves actually did go down fighting. No one calls POW's stupid or weak.
In a way, it is like you are saying "Black Americans were doomed from the beginning because they are inherently that way". And it is like you are trying to justify how badly Blacks were treated in this country. I am a descendant of those slaves, so in a way, it feels like I'm being insulted too.
He's somewhat right but for the wrong reasons. There is evidence that African slavers sold off "undesirables" and kept the more desirable slaves to themselves. There are accounts by white slavers who complain of being cheated by savvy African dealers. However the Middle Passage was a brutal affair and high percentage of slaves died as a result. So you have some natural selection there. Then of course a group of people who can survive centuries of brutal chattel slavery and prosper, relative to other African descended peoples are not made of weak stuff.
End conclusion at this point it really doesn't make much of difference.
I worry because some people will use those statistics, and apply them to the entire Black population. There are people who take those statistics, and then use them to justify their own prejudice, people who say "I avoid Black people because they're dangerous to be around". That can affect me in a way. I have personally heard someone say they would not hire Blacks because "they cause problems". I heard this on a forum thread one day. It is stuff like this I'm worried about. There are people who base their decisions solely on the statistics and not the individuals. People use statistics to justify racial profiling. If I'm not breaking the law, then how does racial profiling help ME?
In the second link, there is an excerpt that said this: "You want to stop crime in America? Create a police state that profiles and targets Black people - law abiding or not." Stuff like that scares me because I have me to look out for.
That's what statistics are supposed to be used for, applying them to a population.
You just contradicted yourself, genius. You're still referring to ALL black people with these stats. And that includes him.
Do you need a definition of what a statistic is and what it means?
And yes, ALL blacks that I have met and had this discussion with either in person or online get defensive about said statistics. Including that poster.
I think generational attitude means, at least for me, is a reference to people on welfare for generations passing along an entitlement attitude, generation after generation.
Using the generational welfare myth, proves you know nothing about this topic and are inventing this generational attitude nonsense.
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