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Old 09-03-2019, 11:06 AM
 
1,137 posts, read 447,427 times
Reputation: 2078

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Well this is a bunch of crock. NJ is liberal. Look at the Mount Laurel decision. Plenty of money has flowed in to low income neighborhoods. And BTW the affluent neighborhoods are mostly GOPs. That is where you got you theory all wrong. lots of rich republicans living as a minority.

LOL, there are two NJ cities on this list of fifty worst in America. It is from the very liberal USA today, not some right wing paper. The article leaves off a few cities in NJ I think should make it, but I will not argue with them.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...home/39006457/


NJ is a blue state, and is a classic example of the poor living in the shade of the rich man's mansion. And you can scream rich Republican all you want. But the Democrats have just as many rich folks or more, including some of the richest in the world.


It was not my post that was a bunch of crock.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:21 AM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,132,426 times
Reputation: 13661
1) Religion to the exclusion of science/reason

2) Extreme gender roles. If women aren't seen as capable of being in the real workforce, that society is missing out on around 50% of potential societal productivity. They'll just focus on having babies instead. This means fewer producers and more mouths consuming, which promotes scarcity within that society.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:25 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 2,397,206 times
Reputation: 2727
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR View Post
Those countries have corruption, rights issues, lower education, and usually dictators or newly formed Democracies or Republics.
Even the U.S. is rife with corruption, rights issues, and lower education in certain circles.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:32 AM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,132,426 times
Reputation: 13661
Quote:
Originally Posted by miquel_westano View Post
LOL, there are two NJ cities on this list of fifty worst in America. It is from the very liberal USA today, not some right wing paper. The article leaves off a few cities in NJ I think should make it, but I will not argue with them.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...home/39006457/


NJ is a blue state, and is a classic example of the poor living in the shade of the rich man's mansion. And you can scream rich Republican all you want. But the Democrats have just as many rich folks or more, including some of the richest in the world.


It was not my post that was a bunch of crock.
You cannot compare open border states that all speak the same language and accessible to each other by Greyhound/Amtrak with different border-controlled countries all over the planet.

The poor in blue states are often red state refugees who specifically went there for better social services. So that increases the number of poor in blue areas by subtracting them from red areas.

It's not like there are fewer homeless in red states because people are thinking, "welp, I'd better pull myself up by my bootstraps and work real hard because no one is gonna help me!" LOL

Because most people already do the best they can, but sometimes it's not enough.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:05 PM
 
Location: USA
30,996 posts, read 22,039,678 times
Reputation: 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
Somehow, unlike other religions, Mormons take their religious principles seriously.
They do? My Mormon friends are all Jack Mormons, and can drink an Irishman under the table...Well, almost!
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:44 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 447,427 times
Reputation: 2078
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
You cannot compare open border states that all speak the same language and accessible to each other by Greyhound/Amtrak with different border-controlled countries all over the planet.

The poor in blue states are often red state refugees who specifically went there for better social services. So that increases the number of poor in blue areas by subtracting them from red areas.

It's not like there are fewer homeless in red states because people are thinking, "welp, I'd better pull myself up by my bootstraps and work real hard because no one is gonna help me!" LOL

Because most people already do the best they can, but sometimes it's not enough.
Most of that went over my head. But the line I put in bold seems laughable to me. The poor in blue state major cities are almost always generational poor caught up in the continuing cycle of economic despair. They are the children of children of children who never had a chance. This wasn't due to red anything. It was because our welfare system is designed to keep people in it, not get them out. Politicians know the only way to insure the support of any group is to keep them believing the government is their only hope.


They keep the poor from earning, the fearful from feeling secure, the coveters coveting, the racial divide divided and so on. Their power and money comes from people feeling the government is the only answer, when in fact it is often the problem. No one in government long really wants to work themselves out of a job. They create new crises every day. Every day we are bombarded with threats in the media. North Korea, Russia, Iran, global warming, illegal immigrants, student debt, and of course the media favorite big corporations. We are told to give the government more money, power and control and they will fix it for us. When you blame the red states, instead of the complete system, you are just a team player.


I blame the politicians on both sides. I just don't know what can be done about it. Probably nothing in my lifetime.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,878,217 times
Reputation: 11259
The answer is you have to have successful capitalism before you can have a welfare state. Liberals put the cart before the horse. Successful capitalist nations tend to promote a welfare state. That doesn’t mean it is a good idea.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:58 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,801,560 times
Reputation: 25191
Conservative or liberal in what way? Economics? Social?

Which definition? There is no real fixed definition of liberal nor conservative, other than the basic political science 101 definition.

How are you determining who is liberal or conservative? Is it an all or nothing item? Is it impossible to say be pro-choice yet strictly against illegal immigration or even most legal immigration? Are any of those liberal or conservative views? Is it possible to advocate for universal health care, yet advocate against food stamps? Or all for gay right yet think transsexuals are mental cases and should have no special rights beyond what a mentally disabled person would have? What label would apply to a person of such thoughts?
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Old 09-03-2019, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,212 posts, read 22,341,507 times
Reputation: 23848
Benevolent dictators can be good for a struggling nation. When there's a single strong man at the top, and it's lethal to oppose him, if that strong man keeps his people happy, everyone is happy. One man decides everything, and that's that in every dispute large or small.

Most dictators start out that way, and tend to keep up the benevolence for some time. The appearance of being benevolent lasts longer than the actual deeds later on. If there's just enough national improvement continually happening, a dictator can hold his job for his entire life.

Even when small improvements are happening, they all add up and help in a poor nation. When even illiterate citizens can see their way around at night because there are a few electric lights in town for the first time, that's a big deal.

Those lights mean that guy's kids are now able to learn how to read for a few more hours after the sun goes down for free. Dad doesn't need to buy lantern fuel anymore so they can read. When the quinine is free, nobody in the family catches malaria, and that's a good deal too.
Dad can now spend a little bit more money on something else his family needs while the quinine helps his kids live into adulthood.

Both are relatively cheap, but they have a huge positive civic effect. If the dictator grows greedy and the benevolence trickles down to nothing, his people still remember the day they got electricity for the first time. They don't mind the greed because everyone takes what he can get every day.

Both that electricity and the medicine cost money, so someone was paid off and someone was paid. But that corruption is just part of everyday life when every basic need in life is negotiable.
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Old 09-03-2019, 02:34 PM
 
Location: USA
30,996 posts, read 22,039,678 times
Reputation: 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
The answer is you have to have successful capitalism before you can have a welfare state. Liberals put the cart before the horse. Successful capitalist nations tend to promote a welfare state. That doesn’t mean it is a good idea.
True, from what I understand Marx and Lenin had the UK in mind for Socialism/Communism, not Russia. Anyway Socialist governments have always screwed up the countries where they have taken over. Only in small European Countries have they had anything that approached success. In Americas, Africa, and Asia, Socialism has been a total failure.
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