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Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,158,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547
I'm really glad they use highly trained staff, but you can also see why the "job carrot" didn't work too well here--you're not going to be hiring locals in any number. We have everything to lose and nothing to gain if there's a problem with the pipe. That's why we need it in a safer location, and to make sure the specs spell out and guarantee the safest possible construction details.
Honestly, when it comes to employment numbers you need to throw out the high and the low and become an Olympic judge and take the middle.
Nebraska will benefit. Ask the then mayor of Hastings what the pipeline did for his city. Ask a reporter named Darrin Fowler of the Hastings Tribune. So there is some gain to be made. There will be NE residents employed. The financial benefit will encompass local businesses. The state will gain tax dollars. When we work in an area.. we pay state tax to NE, we pay sales tax.
I feel no need to tell you again, I have no problem with the moving of the line... but once again.. just because it "looks" like NE won't benefit... they will... you just can't see how yet... And so will people other places (those who build heavy machinery, who build pipe, supplies, and it will also open up other positions nationwide for those on our unemployment rolls. Any project with the scope and breadth that this one does will help...
I'm out... once again mb... your concerns are understood, and your at least willingness to discuss something that YOU have a right to be so involved with is appreciated....
You telling me there is no alternate route in the entire area, that you people are too inept to figure it out in the next few months??
Oh wait, they have already agreed to reroute it.
The builders of the controversial Keystone XL tar sands pipeline agreed Monday to reroute it around Nebraska's ecologically fragile Sandhills in the hope the move would shorten any delay in the project, which has posed political complications for the Obama administration.
TransCanada Corp. (TRP)’s $7 billion Keystone XL oil pipeline still will move ahead with an alternate route after President Barack Obama’s decision to deny a permit, investors, public officials and analysts say.
No one who knows anything about this, including Kat, said anything close to there being no other potential route--read the thread.
I'm from Nebraska. The last I saw on the news, Trans Canada is suggesting that they just want to move the line slightly east, but that doesn't address the problem of it running through ground water for the aquifer--it's out of the Sand Hills, but not out of areas with a high water table. The state wants it run very close to the existing keystone pipe on the eastern edge of the state, where it won't be running through our drinking water. I think they have a route--it's just getting Trans Canada to agree to the one the state wants. It's on their shoulders now.
Here's the answer for the rest of you from the article linked above that came out today--Trans Canada plans on going ahead and building segments now, and linking later after the permit is approved. Obama's decision to delay approval isn't stopping this or delaying construction--it's just going to make sure that the Nebraska end is completed to satisfaction before they sign off. This entire thread has been much blustering about NOTHING. The Administration knew Trans Canada could do this. I'm not an Obama fan, but I kept telling you that this wasn't politically motivated. Once the new Nebraska plan is completed, Obama will approve it, and Trans Canada will apply to tie the pipe in other areas that they will start building NOW to the other end.
I'm from Nebraska. The last I saw on the news, Trans Canada is suggesting that they just want to move the line slightly east, but that doesn't address the problem of it running through ground water for the aquifer--it's out of the Sand Hills, but not out of areas with a high water table.
How do you think your fellow Nebraskans felt about the original pipeline route?
How do you think your fellow Nebraskans felt about the original pipeline route?
As I keep saying, most people in the state aren't opposed to the pipeline, but they were opposed to the route. The initial plan to run it through the Sand Hills was very dangerous--if there was a pipe leak, it could contaminate the state's irrigation water, and the drinking water for 90% of the state. People here came unglued over the Sand Hills route--there was a huge public outcry, with thousands of people showing up for public hearings, etc. When you have a state full of republicans pushing their republican governor, state legislature, senators, and congressman to fight this as hard as they can, you know you have a hot button issue. If the pipe is relocated to the eastern edge of the state, in a much safer location, and if they're locked into building it in the safest manner possible, it becomes a non event here. If you want to read local articles, go to The Lincoln Journal Star Online and do a search for Keystone. That's the Lincoln Nebraska paper.
No one who knows anything about this, including Kat, said anything close to there being no other potential route--read the thread.
I'm from Nebraska. The last I saw on the news, Trans Canada is suggesting that they just want to move the line slightly east, but that doesn't address the problem of it running through ground water for the aquifer--it's out of the Sand Hills, but not out of areas with a high water table. The state wants it run very close to the existing keystone pipe on the eastern edge of the state, where it won't be running through our drinking water. I think they have a route--it's just getting Trans Canada to agree to the one the state wants. It's on their shoulders now.
Here's the answer for the rest of you from the article linked above that came out today--Trans Canada plans on going ahead and building segments now, and linking later after the permit is approved. Obama's decision to delay approval isn't stopping this or delaying construction--it's just going to make sure that the Nebraska end is completed to satisfaction before they sign off. This entire thread has been much blustering about NOTHING. The Administration knew Trans Canada could do this. I'm not an Obama fan, but I kept telling you that this wasn't politically motivated. Once the new Nebraska plan is completed, Obama will approve it, and Trans Canada will apply to tie the pipe in other areas that they will start building NOW to the other end.
Of course it's political. Obama can get out of the way and approve of the project, and let the states work out the details. Like has been said, details of plans and routes for bridges, damns, roads etc... change all the time, but the state department only has to approve of the project from the federal government side. The feds will not be building it, private corporations will, and the states have the right to decide where and how it will be built on their land.
As a Canadian perusing this thread my origional impressions were of a state legislature that waited to the last minute to get it's act together and of a president that decided to kick a political football down the road till after an election.
I have completely reversed my impressions after reading the posts on this and other boards.
Environmental concerns are paramount when it comes to aquifer's and there dependent users.
It would seem to me, with the use of 20/20 hindsight, that the company, TransCanada, and it's minions could have and SHOULD have easily seen the eventual resistance to the pipelines proposed route.
I, as a canadian citizen, am left wondering: how is it that a company that has already operated in the state of Nebraska would have simply 'bulldoggedly' forged ahead when they could have reasonably assumed a major roadblock would have arisen over that aquifer from both, being of prior knowledge of it's fragility and also of it's immense importance to the region for the supply of potable water.
Being arrogant is one thing but being stupidly ignorant with shareholder's money is quite another.
I'd dearly love to be a major shareholder at the next meeting and demand to know what the hell they were thinking with this stupid move that was guarandamnteed to backfire on them!
You telling me there is no alternate route in the entire area, that you people are too inept to figure it out in the next few months??
Oh wait, they have already agreed to reroute it.
The builders of the controversial Keystone XL tar sands pipeline agreed Monday to reroute it around Nebraska's ecologically fragile Sandhills in the hope the move would shorten any delay in the project, which has posed political complications for the Obama administration.
TransCanada Corp. (TRP)’s $7 billion Keystone XL oil pipeline still will move ahead with an alternate route after President Barack Obama’s decision to deny a permit, investors, public officials and analysts say.
Just to clarify, wapasha, you edited this post after I quoted it, something kind of sneaky. In any event, you didn't read my post fully; if you had you would have seen that I didn't say it couldn't be worked out. If you hadn't been so quick to rush to judgement, you might have noticed that. I stand by what I said, you can't build the pipeline w/o a plan.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-19-2012 at 06:08 PM..
Of course it's political. Obama can get out of the way and approve of the project, and let the states work out the details. Like has been said, details of plans and routes for bridges, damns, roads etc... change all the time, but the state department only has to approve of the project from the federal government side. The feds will not be building it, private corporations will, and the states have the right to decide where and how it will be built on their land.
That's all he ever had to do to begin with--he doesn't write the stupid thing himself. He can't approve the new plan until they actually HAVE one--it's not completed yet. From your own links from today's news, it looks like Trans Canada can go ahead with the areas where there were no problems without federal approval, and then apply for approval later after the details in Nebraska are worked out. You tea party people make me crazy, and this is exactly why lots of republicans are getting really sick of you. Deal with the truth and the facts for once instead of trying to spin every little detail even when you're obviously WRONG--it works short term, but you all are quickly getting to the point where no one believes anything that you say, because it's usually a lie. Obama did exactly what he had to do--deny the permit--because the plan for Nebraska isn't completed. The lack of a permit doesn't stop Trans Canada from starting the line, and it doesn't delay the project. He can and will approve the new application when it's done and the details are finalized on the Nebraska portion. Enough already! The decision to reject the initial permit was all he COULD do. Get a grip...
As a Canadian perusing this thread my origional impressions were of a state legislature that waited to the last minute to get it's act together and of a president that decided to kick a political football down the road till after an election.
I have completely reversed my impressions after reading the posts on this and other boards.
Environmental concerns are paramount when it comes to aquifer's and there dependent users.
It would seem to me, with the use of 20/20 hindsight, that the company, TransCanada, and it's minions could have and SHOULD have easily seen the eventual resistance to the pipelines proposed route.
I, as a canadian citizen, am left wondering: how is it that a company that has already operated in the state of Nebraska would have simply 'bulldoggedly' forged ahead when they could have reasonably assumed a major roadblock would have arisen over that aquifer from both, being of prior knowledge of it's fragility and also of it's immense importance to the region for the supply of potable water.
Being arrogant is one thing but being stupidly ignorant with shareholder's money is quite another.
I'd dearly love to be a major shareholder at the next meeting and demand to know what the hell they were thinking with this stupid move that was guarandamnteed to backfire on them!
That pretty much sums it up. They couldn't have handled this whole thing worse if they tried.
As a Canadian perusing this thread my origional impressions were of a state legislature that waited to the last minute to get it's act together and of a president that decided to kick a political football down the road till after an election.
I have completely reversed my impressions after reading the posts on this and other boards.
Environmental concerns are paramount when it comes to aquifer's and there dependent users.
It would seem to me, with the use of 20/20 hindsight, that the company, TransCanada, and it's minions could have and SHOULD have easily seen the eventual resistance to the pipelines proposed route.
I, as a canadian citizen, am left wondering: how is it that a company that has already operated in the state of Nebraska would have simply 'bulldoggedly' forged ahead when they could have reasonably assumed a major roadblock would have arisen over that aquifer from both, being of prior knowledge of it's fragility and also of it's immense importance to the region for the supply of potable water.
Being arrogant is one thing but being stupidly ignorant with shareholder's money is quite another.
I'd dearly love to be a major shareholder at the next meeting and demand to know what the hell they were thinking with this stupid move that was guarandamnteed to backfire on them!
Did you see the map of the US on the post that showed that although Nebraska has pipelines, at least one that belongs to that group, there is nothing in the west half of the state. Now I live in Kansas and we out west have to depend on the Ogallala Aquifer for our water, also. I was very much against this pipeline in November back when jojan's two links were published but it was late December when we learned that the path to be taken would soon be changed. Did you miss the part about the Nebraska governor backing down after the path was moved east? I have been for this one ever since the path was changed.
Last night I took part in a phone town hall with my Congressman in which he talked about the changed path. He lives right over the aquifer and is a farmer so he was also against this thing at first.
Yes, they do have a pipeline in both Nebraska and Kansas that goes into Oklahoma to a refinery there. Now there will be two although I am sure that we will have to wait for the election before we can begin work. The existing pipeline takes heavy crude from Canada but not the area that is being considered now. I don't think the company acted any more arrogantly than Obama has in his part. He agreed with the Congress to allow this thing to go through until he realized that February is too early for it all to take place.
Congressman Huelskamp told us last night that the Congress is trying to work out something that would take the decision out of the hands of the State Department since they are only involved because Canada is. I see at least enough proof to prove that Obama doesn't care at all about the jobs that could be had sooner than 10 months from now. He has decided that what will play with his political base is to do what he has done and that is going to lose him some votes next fall.
I think that you have been reading mostly what lefties said in this thread not anything from people like me or you may be looking at it differently.
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They couldn't have handled this whole thing worse if they tried.
