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All she (and others) wanted was the law to be upheld. She wasn't doing it to get under anyone's skin. No retaliation is necessary. If someone is offended by a just law, that's their problem.
Congratulations!
You just made a statement which could have been used to defend turning in Jews in Nazi Germany.
"SCHOOL PRAYER, OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, GRANT US EACH DAY THE DESIRE TO DO OUR BEST. TO GROW MENTALLY AND MORALLY AS WELL AS PHYSICALLY. TO BE KIND AND HELPFUL TO OUR CLASSMATES AND TEACHERS. TO BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES AS WELL AS WITH OTHERS. HELP US TO BE GOOD SPORTS AND SMILE WHEN WE LOSE AS WELL AS WHEN WE WIN. TEACH US THE VALUE OF TRUE FRIENDSHIP. HELP US ALWAYS TO CONDUCT OURSELVES SO AS TO BRING CREDIT TO CRANSTON HIGH SCHOOL WEST. AMEN"
Now Take out the "School Prayer, Our Heavenly Father, and Amen" and what do you have?....and piece that is largely inspirational, motivational and encouraging..no, scriptures, no dogma, no church is mention, no doctrine, nothing that can directly tie it to any one religion..
I have heard Mormons, Jews and even Muslim reference "Our Heavenly Farther", (though that was on TV..."Allah")...so its a pretty vague, secular "prayer" that endorses no one religion or church...not too sure why you people automatically assume its Christian....but for people to claim to be about "multiculturalism", that's surprising that you're not aware of it..
Where was this oh, so offensive thing put at?....on a wall in some random school....why?...it was made by I think the first Senior to Graduate from that school, like 50 years ago...so it has historical value to that school and not trying to shove religion down your throats?...and what religion would that be anyway?
So what about the "Separation of Church and State".....OK, never-mind that such a thing can't be found in the Constitution...I'll play along.....Is a vague, Secular, prayer that mentions no church or scriptures or even a deity constitutes enough of a "Church" presence?....do a random wall in a random school constitutes enough of a "State" presence?.
To somehow think that the lines of Church and State are being crossed and they are being muddled together in a piece of paper on some random wall of some random school takes an incredible leap in logic....to somehow think that this is a grave violation of your Constitutional rights takes an even greater leap....
But Lets look at what the Constitution actually says and not some left-wing "belief"...."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
So, did congress pass any laws that would respect or favor any established religion? of course not....has the prohibiting of the free exercise thereof taken place...that can be argued...not sure why the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"is always forgotten or just outright ignored by you people....but like most things with you people only your "rights" matter or are more important..
but it received public funding?...yeah it is funded through the local residents and I am sure they wanted it to stay there and its been there for 50 years, (please liberals no reference to racial segregation, I just don't need that idiocy)..sorry but they have rights too, I mean it is their taxes going to it...they have some say.. not sure why an entire community have to cater to the whims of a teenager who have to remove a piece of history for the school when she won't even be there in 2 years.
but in the end, she won.....she managed to get this piece of paper that encouraged honesty and academic excellence, that was completely harmless and a piece of history removed,...and yet the left can't praise her loud enough for her "bravery" and being a "Hero".....you think about how bizarre that is for a moment....
She took offense to this paper and she demanded something be done about it...of course she couldn't live and let live...that would be understanding and tolerance....only right-wingers are expected to be that....for the moment they disagree with you, all that "open-mindedness" go straight out the window and God help you.
Think about this, she say that inspirational paper on the wall and took offense...that isn't intolerance?...that isn't, dare I say bigotry?....for people who are so quick to yell "bigot", it's amazing that you people didn't recognized that....again, yes she won her legal case but what drove her was she took "offense" to that paper, sounds slightly bigoted to me..
now the community is pulling away from her and right on cue, everyone is a bigot.....what did you expct?. You were militant and hostile to other people's beliefs and when they push-back you cry foul and yell "bigot'?....a 16 year old girl don't have more important or "fun" things to do then fight a school to remove a piece of encouraging history, yet everyone else who disagree with her and want nothing to do with her is "petty"?...
Yes, the threats of rape and death are disgusting...but when you act fanatical yourself, don't be surprise when other fanatical come at you....crazy atheist being attacked by crazy Christians or were there all Christians to begin with?...seen no proof that they were Christians......
You can't demand anything you dislike be removed and act hostile to people of differing views...and yell "bigot" when they start to push you back.. you dislike Christians or religious people in general?...don't be surprise when they disavow you and won't nothing to do with you like these Florists....yelling "bigot" sounds hypocritical..
and please stop saying "what if they were denying service to blacks, Jews or gays...Bigots"....I am sure they have delivered to all those people and more...why assume they only have white-straight customers?....they are denying this girl...this individual on her actions, not her beliefs....its ok to be an atheist...but when you get all crazy and militant with it....well, this happens.
I can't rep you enough for this. EXCELLENT POST! I would like ask where is the freedom of speech for Christians? We are all Americans here and why does it seem like only the atheists get to enjoy freedom of speech?
If a Christian kid wants to pray before a test he is not allowed to do so because he might offend the atheist in the back row. Yet, the atheist can complain about the kid when he brings a Bible for silent reading and the Christian boy has to bring in another book. I am sorry but no one is forcing Christianity down anyone's throats by a simple mural or a kid praying before a test. I am sure 95% of the school's students didn't even look at the mural.
No one is forcing anyone to attend a Christian church, Islamic Mosque, Mormon temple, or Jewish synagogue by allowing some kid to pray in school. The whole class isn't forced to pray. The school kids aren't forced to look at the mural and recite the prayer. If that were the case, then maybe I could see the whole point of this. Yet, the left and the atheists continue to cry the loudest. Gee, I wonder who is really being intolerant here? Christians are bending over backwards to make sure we don't offend you, but you keep saying that we are intolerant. Hello, have you looked in the mirror lately?
I just pray for you all. And no, I don't think people should be threatening this girl.
The ACLU reported she received harsh backlash, but doesn't say she's being attacked.
Sounds like the delivery person was more in danger and had to show ID to get to the house...............................Raymond Santilli of Flowers by Santilli, one of the companies the FFRF attempted to order from, explains that a foundation representative told him that the person delivering the flowers might need police protection. Additionally, he was apparently told that the person would potentially need identification to enter the home.
Seems to me the Foundation Representative put this out there Maybe, this story, has been slightly exaggerated!!
How do we know the attacks came from Christians. Cindy Sheehan protested against the war and it was the left that made her quit, by all the nasty things they were saying about her.
There was no mention, that Christians attacked this girl. You fail to remember, the left plays both sides, just to make things look worse.
So, should Christians just sit back and not fight for their right's for the banner to stay??? If she had the right to fight to take it down, Christian's have every right to fight, to keep it up.
And I might ask you, if I were a Christian, why should I care in the first place? Would my faith in Christ be shattered if this banner went down? Would more people become Christians if it stayed up? It's not even worth a fight in my eyes. Christians who are truly secure in their faith would likely be indifferent to it.
Here's the trouble: The Christian right is constantly fighting these stupid culture war battles in order for America to remain a "Christian nation."--which America never was in its values or its government. Jesus was not a culture warrior. He was a savior. I'm pretty sure he'd care more about all those lost sheep he talked about in the gospels instead of some little prayer banner in some school somewhere. Yet these battles go on all the time, and every time Christians win one of these battles, they chalk it up to a victory for Jesus, when it's actually a defeat. Nobody was persuaded, and neither Christianity nor Jesus gained any more respect out of it. In fact, both lose respect because of the attitude of most American Christians.
Christians shouldn't be doormats, but neither should they get into a panic every time this kind of thing happens.
It shouldn't be a national news item either, it didn't even need to go this far, but people can't help it can they? Now they get to have an enemy...a young girl...to blame for all that's wrong in the world. Nice.
Just substitute a few words and I think you're spot on.
It shouldn't be a national news item either, it didn't even need to go this far, but she couldn't help it could she? Now she gets to have enemies...Christians/the Establishment/her Community...to blame for all her teenage anger. Sad.
So, I can assume that these threats are coming from GOOD CHRISTIANS? Maybe you can cite that portion of their bible that condoned and encourages harming those that don't believe your religion.
You can assume anything you want, the same way someone assumed that the threats were coming from Muslims. Who is to say who is threatening her? I didn't read anywhere that is was from any religious group, other than one stupid post.
I can't rep you enough for this. EXCELLENT POST! I would like ask where is the freedom of speech for Christians? We are all Americans here and why does it seem like only the atheists get to enjoy freedom of speech?
What?? Everyone has the freedom of speech (to the same degree, at least), but this is not an issue of free speech - it's an issue of the separation between church & state, and that public displays of a religious nature aren't allowed in schools. She wasn't exercising or speaking about anything, she was only asking them to uphold the law... if you reported somebody for stealing, would that be a statement or you being given rights over the thief? Stop playing the victim, especially when nobody was being victimized here.
Quote:
If a Christian kid wants to pray before a test he is not allowed to do so because he might offend the atheist in the back row.
Not true. Anyone can engage in personal prayer, be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or whatever. Where did you get the idea they couldn't? The conservative media? I used to work in a public school, and we even had a Christian after-school group (along with groups representing various other cultures & demographics). Nobody cared, and it was perfectly legal since their meetings weren't required nor on school time. Again, nobody is being personally stifled or victimized... and you clearly don't understand the difference between personal & public displays of religion.
Probably the physical threats were from atheists or Muslims or somebody.
"Or somebody." Soooo, basically you're saying they could have come from anybody? Yup, I agree... LOLOL.
I believe you meant to say, "Probably the physical threats were from Atheists or Muslims. And I'm saying this with absolutely no evidence to back up my assertions, but only because I refuse to admit a Christian may have been responsible - even though there's a good chance they were." Is that a more accurate translation of your poorly-worded attempt to deflect?
Last edited by gizmo980; 01-22-2012 at 03:46 AM..
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I would like ask where is the freedom of speech for Christians? We are all Americans here and why does it seem like only the atheists get to enjoy freedom of speech?
Yet, the atheist can complain about the kid when he brings a Bible for silent reading and the Christian boy has to bring in another book. I am sorry but no one is forcing Christianity down anyone's throats by a simple mural or a kid praying before a test. I am sure 95% of the school's students didn't even look at the mural. 
Maybe, this story, has been slightly exaggerated!!
You mean tolerance works 2 ways? Darn.. 
