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Old 01-23-2012, 09:18 AM
 
14,293 posts, read 9,659,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
No, they don't.
Back at ya... Yes they do fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
In many states gay people cannot adopt children. They cannot enter into contracts for marriage with someone of the same sex, which limits access to aforementioned rights and benefits that straight couples can enter into.
So now you are switching to adoption law as a right? Since when did adopting a child become a protected constitutional right?

Marriage is not a right either. We don't even have the same marriage laws in every state. If you want to marry a young girl, and your state has laws forbidding it, then go to a different state.

The people in each state make their own marriage and adoption laws. The people in each state vote for the representatives to go to their state legislature, where they write and pass the laws. In most states you CANNOT marry just anyone you choose to, and their are also age requirements. Marriage is not a right, because if it was, then you could marry anyone you wanted to, and as many spouses as you wanted to.

You cannot mandate that each state adopt laws that suit your personal wants and desires, it's up to the people in the state to do so. If you don't like the laws of the land, move to a different state or even to another country. We have people in this country who think people have "a right" to a house, to food, to health care and even the right to a high paying job.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:04 AM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,746,741 times
Reputation: 7019
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
All of these examples utterly fail.
How so? You claimed gays have equal rights. They don't. Do you just make up random things for fun?
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:09 AM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,746,741 times
Reputation: 7019
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post

Marriage is not a right either. We don't even have the same marriage laws in every state. If you want to marry a young girl, and your state has laws forbidding it, then go to a different state.
Marriage most certainly is a right. You definitely don't understand the law. I don't get why you people keep presenting this lame argument. You've been shown a million times on this board that you're wrong about marriage not being a right, and yet you keep claiming it's not.

Quote:
The people in each state make their own marriage and adoption laws. The people in each state vote for the representatives to go to their state legislature, where they write and pass the laws. In most states you CANNOT marry just anyone you choose to, and their are also age requirements. Marriage is not a right, because if it was, then you could marry anyone you wanted to, and as many spouses as you wanted to.
The States can put restrictions on marriages if they have a compelling interest that is not in violation of the Constitution. They cannot, however, ban marriage without a compelling interest. Again, you do not understand the law. Rights are not limitless. Free Speech is a right, and yet it has at least a dozen exceptions. Marriage was declared a fundamental right by the Supreme Court. It is the Supreme Law of the Land.

The States tried this with interracial marriage. They are not allowed to ban that by law.

Quote:
You cannot mandate that each state adopt laws that suit your personal wants and desires, it's up to the people in the state to do so. If you don't like the laws of the land, move to a different state or even to another country. We have people in this country who think people have "a right" to a house, to food, to health care and even the right to a high paying job.
You do realize that 94% of Americans wanted interracial marriage to continue to be banned right? Guess who mandated that all the States were wrong, and were now required to marry mixed race couples?
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:06 PM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,349,509 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
Back at ya... Yes they do fail.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812
So now you are switching to adoption law as a right? Since when did adopting a child become a protected constitutional right?
When you confer privileges, such as adoption, driver's licenses, ANYTHING, you need to treat everyone equally under the laws governing same. If you do not, it becomes a CIVIL RIGHTS issue to be treated equally under the law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812
Marriage is not a right either. We don't even have the same marriage laws in every state. If you want to marry a young girl, and your state has laws forbidding it, then go to a different state.
In Loving v. Virginia (1967), the case where the Supreme Court struck down a Virginia law banning interracial marriage, Chief Justice Earl Warren wrote for the majority:

The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men ...

To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.


You DO realize that the constitution is not, and was never meant to be, a list of rights. The rights we have as citizens are greater than the ones explicitly enumerated in the constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OIC812
The people in each state make their own marriage and adoption laws. The people in each state vote for the representatives to go to their state legislature, where they write and pass the laws. In most states you CANNOT marry just anyone you choose to, and their are also age requirements. Marriage is not a right, because if it was, then you could marry anyone you wanted to, and as many spouses as you wanted to.

You cannot mandate that each state adopt laws that suit your personal wants and desires, it's up to the people in the state to do so. If you don't like the laws of the land, move to a different state or even to another country. We have people in this country who think people have "a right" to a house, to food, to health care and even the right to a high paying job.
This is the UNITED STATES. "The laws" must comport with the United States constitution, and the protections of many of the federal constitution, including the pesky "equal protection clause" were deemed to apply to the states as well as the fed.

See, "The people" in the individual states cannot get together and decide to pass laws through their individual legislatures to discriminate against X group.

It's why schools were desegregated even in places where the vast majority

Figure out how the fed was able to do THAT, where "education is not a right," and then you can see why the examples, posited earlier "do not fail."
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Here
2,887 posts, read 2,629,098 times
Reputation: 1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
In Loving v. Virginia (1967), the case where the Supreme Court struck down a Virginia law banning interracial marriage, Chief Justice Earl Warren wrote for the majority:

The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men
In 1967 when that decision was made the definition of marriage was, and still is, one man and one woman!

Nothing said, inferred, mentioned, implied, or otherwise stated regarding homosexuality or the plight of the homosexual.


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Old 01-24-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,690,103 times
Reputation: 9324
Is gay rights the biggest social issue in our country since abolition of slavery?

No. Most of us don't ever think about it... until we see these threads.
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:59 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,355 posts, read 16,317,241 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by JobZombie View Post
In 1967 when that decision was made the definition of marriage was, and still is, one man and one woman!

Nothing said, inferred, mentioned, implied, or otherwise stated regarding homosexuality or the plight of the homosexual.



Nor would I expect it to, since the case was about interracial marriage.

What's your point?
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Here
2,887 posts, read 2,629,098 times
Reputation: 1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Nor would I expect it to, since the case was about interracial marriage.

What's your point?
Some homosexual proponents are under the misguided delusion that Loving v. Virginia is somehow applicable to so-called homosexual “marriage” when it quite clearly is not. However this doesn’t stop them from continually spouting the lie but they, like other like minded misguided zealots, are convinced that if one tells a lie often enough and loud enough that it becomes truth.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,953 posts, read 22,057,225 times
Reputation: 13772
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
When you confer privileges, such as adoption, driver's licenses, ANYTHING, you need to treat everyone equally under the laws governing same. If you do not, it becomes a CIVIL RIGHTS issue to be treated equally under the law.
And yet, in some states the age requirements for driver's licenses and marriage licenses are NOT the same.

I have not checked, but I'm sure in many, not all states, an adult man cannot marry a 14 year old girl, cannot marry his first cousin, or his sister, or his mother, or his aunt, or another man, or more then one woman at the same time, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
You DO realize that the constitution is not, and was never meant to be, a list of rights. The rights we have as citizens are greater than the ones explicitly enumerated in the constitution.
Yes I know, some people think they have the right for the government to provide them with a free college education, a good paying job, free food, and a free house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
This is the UNITED STATES. "The laws" must comport with the United States constitution, and the protections of many of the federal constitution, including the pesky "equal protection clause" were deemed to apply to the states as well as the fed.

See, "The people" in the individual states cannot get together and decide to pass laws through their individual legislatures to discriminate against X group.

It's why schools were desegregated even in places where the vast majority

Figure out how the fed was able to do THAT, where "education is not a right," and then you can see why the examples, posited earlier "do not fail."
But I have already listed examples where states do have laws denying marriage to some couples. you want it to be legal for a man to marry a man, but illegal for a man to marry two men, or two women, or maybe even illegal for a 40 year old man to marry a 12 year old boy.

Apparently, your views, or possibly the views of other people should be made law, but not the views of others. In other words, laws forbidding a man marrying another man should be overturned, but laws against three men marrying each other, or marrying a 12 year old boy are fine and dandy.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,953 posts, read 22,057,225 times
Reputation: 13772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Is gay rights the biggest social issue in our country since abolition of slavery?

No. Most of us don't ever think about it... until we see these threads.
Which begs the question, why does CD-Data think politics is such a benign topic, that it should be lumped in with everything else under the sun? Obviously gay issues are popular, and deserve their own forums. but then <sigh> we would not be forced to be deluged with gay threads, and we might not <shudder> engage in discussions on gay issues. A little coerced social engineering is obviously at work here by the staff at City-Data.
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