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Old 01-28-2012, 10:09 AM
 
29,944 posts, read 18,502,124 times
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For all those who are Obama supporters, let us suppose that you get your wish and Obama is re-elected. Obama has shown no efforts toward fiscal restraint and is projected to accumulate a debt total of $24 trillion by the end of a second term.

What happens then? The next president and the US inherit a debt that is 175% of GDP, there are few alternatives-

1. marked austerity measures in which entitlements are cut to the bare minimum. Who suffers the most? The poor and what remains of the middle class.

2. US default, which creates a global depression and negatively impacts EVERYONE. Who suffers the most? The poor and what remains of the middle class.

3. Hyperinflation and or further marked currency devaluation. All assets denominated in dollars are reduced in relative value, contributing to the further demise of the US economy.


So explain to me how four more years of Obama is beneficial to anyone?
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:39 AM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,011,144 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
For all those who are Obama supporters, let us suppose that you get your wish and Obama is re-elected. Obama has shown no efforts toward fiscal restraint and is projected to accumulate a debt total of $24 trillion by the end of a second term.

What happens then? The next president and the US inherit a debt that is 175% of GDP, there are few alternatives-

1. marked austerity measures in which entitlements are cut to the bare minimum. Who suffers the most? The poor and what remains of the middle class.

2. US default, which creates a global depression and negatively impacts EVERYONE. Who suffers the most? The poor and what remains of the middle class.

3. Hyperinflation and or further marked currency devaluation. All assets denominated in dollars are reduced in relative value, contributing to the further demise of the US economy.


So explain to me how four more years of Obama is beneficial to anyone?
Hold up, lemme first ask you this:

Where is the evidence (based on their former jobs as legislators) that Newt and Gingrich would bring fiscal sanity?
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:40 AM
 
3,045 posts, read 3,182,245 times
Reputation: 1307
I'm not a big Obama supporter, but I'll chime in. I'm more fighting a battle against the continuous one-sided, foolish arguments that people insist on making here. This would include your post.

Why identify Obama here? McCain was going to do basically the same thing. Why? What else could a President do during the Great Recession, but run deficits. The only alternative is to prolong the recession and that would cause huge deficits as well.

You also act like you're omniscient here. Are you a well known, world renowned economist? If so, why are you posting here. If not, how do you know specifically where the national debt will be in 5 years.

Why do you have only three possible alternatives? There are obviously more.

Finally, why would your question be only about Obama. It's highly unlikely that any of his to be opponents would make drastic changes even if they could.

I get it, you're worried about the debt. Unfortunately, the fault of it lies in those that allowed the country to get into this mess. You'd also be served well to study some economics so you can get a better grasp of fiscal issues.
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:48 AM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,037,244 times
Reputation: 9407
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexcuseforignorance View Post
I'm not a big Obama supporter, but I'll chime in. I'm more fighting a battle against the continuous one-sided, foolish arguments that people insist on making here. This would include your post.

Why identify Obama here? McCain was going to do basically the same thing. Why? What else could a President do during the Great Recession, but run deficits. The only alternative is to prolong the recession and that would cause huge deficits as well.

You also act like you're omniscient here. Are you a well known, world renowned economist? If so, why are you posting here. If not, how do you know specifically where the national debt will be in 5 years.

Why do you have only three possible alternatives? There are obviously more.

Finally, why would your question be only about Obama. It's highly unlikely that any of his to be opponents would make drastic changes even if they could.

I get it, you're worried about the debt. Unfortunately, the fault of it lies in those that allowed the country to get into this mess. You'd also be served well to study some economics so you can get a better grasp of fiscal issues.
A 5 year projection is not hard to make, especially in economics. In fact, 5 years is the low end of government projections....most agencies put out 20 year planning horizons. One could argue no one will know what will happen in 20 years....but 5 years given the current economic climate? That's about as easy as it gets for economists.

You might want to read up before you wade into this conversation.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:01 AM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,037,244 times
Reputation: 9407
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
For all those who are Obama supporters, let us suppose that you get your wish and Obama is re-elected. Obama has shown no efforts toward fiscal restraint and is projected to accumulate a debt total of $24 trillion by the end of a second term.

What happens then? The next president and the US inherit a debt that is 175% of GDP, there are few alternatives-

1. marked austerity measures in which entitlements are cut to the bare minimum. Who suffers the most? The poor and what remains of the middle class.

2. US default, which creates a global depression and negatively impacts EVERYONE. Who suffers the most? The poor and what remains of the middle class.

3. Hyperinflation and or further marked currency devaluation. All assets denominated in dollars are reduced in relative value, contributing to the further demise of the US economy.


So explain to me how four more years of Obama is beneficial to anyone?
It can't be stated enough how this President has completely ignored the debt/deficit problem. Part of Democrats' strategy for not passing a budget in over 1000 days is to obscure spending from the American public. They know that American's will not engage in reading piecemeal Continuing Resolutions and other methods of keeping Agencies running for short pre-determined amounts of time. When its plastered together in one document, the populace can see where it's all being spent. And that's the goal...to keep American's from seeing where pet projects, crony capitalism, and outright waste is being funded with reckless abandon.

It was the plan all along, and I'm convinced that Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi colluded in order to do this. It's the only way Obama can get away with his Big Spending, Radical Agenda. ZERO accountability is how he operates.

That Liberals don't question their government is not just dangerous, its UNPATRIOTIC. I'm not surprised that this is the track that they would take in order to protect their Messiah, Barack Obama.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:02 AM
 
3,045 posts, read 3,182,245 times
Reputation: 1307
There's a reason why they call it an economic estimate and not a fact. Nobody truly knows where the deficit will be in 3 years as a certainty. This is especially true at a time when many people think it's likely that Europe will enter into recession. Feel free to look back at economic projections in 2007 if you want to see what I mean.

In terms of your little comment, some of us went to college and studied economics. Shouldn't you be making your little partisan threads somewhere?

Quote:
It can't be stated enough how this President has completely ignored the debt/deficit problem. Part of Democrats' strategy for not passing a budget in over 1000 days is to obscure spending from the American public.
.....
That Liberals don't question their government is not just dangerous, its UNPATRIOTIC. I'm not surprised that this is the track that they would take in order to protect Messiah Obama.
This President did the same thing that McCain was proposing and that Bush was doing. There wasn't an alternative. It was a massive recession so of could the sitting President ignored the debt. The time to deal with it is when times were good. The last time I checked, the Republicans had full control of the government for 6/8 years leading up to the mess and they weren't interested in cutting the deficit.

In terms of your unpatriotic argument, have a look in the mirror. You act like all 'Liberals' share some hive mind and all conservatives care about fiscal restraint. Feel free to spend some time criticizing Republicans about invading Iraq on false notions, being greeted as liberators, caring more about social issues than fiscal conservatism or more recently doing their best to kill any reform of the financial system that caused this mess.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:02 AM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,011,144 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
It can't be stated enough how this President has completely ignored the debt/deficit problem. Part of Democrats' strategy for not passing a budget in over 1000 days is to obscure spending from the American public. They know that American's will not engage in reading piecemeal Continuing Resolutions and other methods of keeping Agencies running for short pre-determined amounts of time. When its plastered together in one document, the populace can see where it's all being spent. And that's the goal...to keep American's from seeing where pet projects, crony capitalism, and outright waste is being funded with reckless abandoned.

That Liberals don't question their government is not just dangerous, its UNPATRIOTIC. I'm not surprised that this is the track that they would take in order to protect Messiah Obama.
Okay...still though, the question remains:

If we vote in Romney or Gingrich, what in their legislative background suggests that they would bring fiscal sanity to the country if Obama is so bad?
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,600,139 times
Reputation: 14818
I think we are seeing how well austerity continues to work out in the Euro-zone.

I absolutely wish things could have gotten better faster, but, I'll take our little baby steps over complete melt-down any day which is all the GOP promises.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:10 AM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,037,244 times
Reputation: 9407
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Okay...still though, the question remains:

If we vote in Romney or Gingrich, what in their legislative background suggests that they would bring fiscal sanity to the country if Obama is so bad?
There is no evidence of that. But there is evidence....via the White House' own budget outlook.....that we will see $20+ Trillion in debt in a few short years.

How is that acceptable to you? What are you going to do about it? Vote for the same folks you voted for last time? Of course.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,015,174 times
Reputation: 3954
First thing.... let the Bush Tax Cuts expire for those making over $250K/year.

Second thing... continue consolidation of government bureaucracy a-la his current proposal for Commerce.

Third thing... when Republicans try again to hold the government hostage via the debt ceiling, pull the trigger on the 14th Amendment, pull those claws, and get on with the business of governance.

Fourth thing... propose tough plans on the "big three" (Defense spending, Social Security, and Medicare) and watch the Republicans fight them tooth and nail.

Sixth thing... veto any and all attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Those would be my expectations.

YMMV
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