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Unwanted children being aborted lowered crime rates. So perhaps it is immoral, but it helps things. Just like drinking a beer on Saturday afternoon, you know, the sabbath, the one to keep holy.
A majority of Americans see racism in many others. Perhaps they aren't all wrong?
And don't get me started on the evils of Christianity, that would take up a whole page of links.
How about that for truth, bub?
I do not have definite opinions on two of these, My point was simply that many do not put these up for consideration. As far as racism and christianity go, I'd argue that racism isn't institutional and Christianity is epistemically superior to many worldviews. It shouldn't be hardto find moral evils in Christendom(not really Christianity the worldview) as most throughout recordable history have been Christian. Christianty has also done alot of good.
I do not definite opinions on two of these, My point was simply that many do not put these up for consideration. As far as racism and christianity go, I'd argue that racism isn't institutional and Christianity is epistemically superior to many worldviews. It shouldn't be hardto find moral evils in Christendom(not really Christianity the worldview) as most throughout recordable history have been Christian. Christianty has also done alot of good.
Jeez people, what meep is arguing is simply that, in his perception, liberals are closed-minded when it comes to certain issues.
Thus, he lists a few prepositions that generally run counter to many people's beliefs and/or understanding of the world.
Meep is not arguing that these prepositions are true - he is asking why liberals, in his perception, are unwilling to ever consider that these prepositions may be true, rather than outright reject them.
In essence, his question is quite straight-foward even though people get side-track by the hot-button issues he has used as examples.
Meep: Let me know if I understand you correctly or whether I am completely off-track here.
Is the truth irrelevant for social liberals?
Let me explain many liberals I come into contact with never care about the truth of the matter, only what "sounds right". For example, liberals will never admit these propositions as true
-One culture/religion can be better than another Really...... so are you saying that Islam is better than Christianity or is this judgement on religeon yours to decide? -Homosexuality is wrong and destructive This is definately untrue but has been used by the religous nut jobs as some kind of moral crusade.... maybe they should be worrying about abuse by priests on children or the systamatic abuse to the less wealthy in America by the wealthy Banks, Insurance companies, health and education system and law maers.... now that is a fact that can't be disputed.
-Abortion is immoral Abortion is immoral but bombing women and children is moral? Aborting cells that have not even specialised into any organs must be defended at all costs but once born then their welfare is not important and for millions they cannot get decent health care to keep them well.
- people who disagree with Obama do so because of ideas, not his race. Many disagree with Obama and not because of his color but unfortunately there are far too many in the GOP who disagree with Obama because he is mixed race and not because of his ideas and policies. NEVER before has any American President and First lady been treated as disrespectfully as President Obama and Michelle Obama...... to the point of being absolutely disgraceful.
I could go on here, but i think you get the point. YES we get the point......... Facts aren't your thing
Now these propositions may be false,but what strikes me as odd is that for liberals(many,at least) is that these views can not possibly be true--they are automatically wrong, logically prior to any argument given. Why? because they may "offend" people? You may be saying these things as a "devils advocate" but in America today there is a fear on both sides BOTH SIDES of the political aisle to talk about differences. I was warned when i came to America that i should NOT talk about Politics, Religion, race or homosexuality as i would probably get shot. This was so wierd to me as in the UK anyone can talk about anything without fear of being harmed.... discussion is open in Europe but hidden here........... so tragic.
Hypothetically, If I were to express skepticism about homosexual lifestyle/family I am likely to immediately be called "bigot" and "close-minded" without any evidential justifications as to why I am wrong. As i said above... this is a American thing or something that happens in a communist country or under a dictator ..... why?
Is this view really openminded or does it simply kowtow to whatever is intellectually fashionable at the time? Lastly, can this sort of political attitude actually solve anything?
You are right that this is not being open minded. I think that this is like a family. The chidren learn from their parents but in this case the parents are the Democrat and Republican party and the chidren are the Citizens. The people of America see the hatred and greed being spewed out daily by both parties and they copy it and take sides. If the two parties do NOT clean up their act then the next generation who become our politicians will just continue the hate fest of todays political parties. Worrying about how well off financially that we will be leaving our children or grandchildren is really not the issue but how we affect our children (citizens) mentally is the real factor that will either suffocate and destroy America or move it upwards and forward.
Jeez people, what meep is arguing is simply that, in his perception, liberals are closed-minded when it comes to certain issues.
Thus, he lists a few prepositions that generally run counter to many people's beliefs and/or understanding of the world.
Meep is not arguing that these prepositions are true - he is asking why liberals, in his perception, are unwilling to ever consider that these prepositions may be truth, rather than outright reject them.
In essence, his question is quite straight-foward even though people get side-track by the hot-button issues he has used as examples.
Meep: Let me know if I understand you correctly or whether I am completely off-track here.
And I'm telling him, and showing him, that I am more than willing to debate.
The hundreds of homosexual, abortion, and birther debates on this board more then prove his point wrong.
2. Abortion may be immoral, but so is drinking and working on Saturday, do you want to outlaw that also?
3. Many people do disagree with Obama because of his ideas, but what in the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in china? There are many racists out there that don't like him because he is black. My bet, they are all Republican.
4. And you may think that one religion can be better than another, but I urge you to at least read the wikipedia page on the crusades, the inquisition, the salem witch trials, etc.
Wow, for someone who thinks their open-minded you just proved yourself wrong, with the last part of #3.
Guess it's true, Liberals are closed-minded.
Many blacks don't like Obama's view either, I've even heard Democrats claim this. If you represent Libs, no wonder people step back when you enter a room.
As far as #4 you think you could move a little closer to the year 2012!!
And I'm telling him, and showing him, that I am more than willing to debate.
The hundreds of homosexual, abortion, and birther debates on this board more then prove his point wrong.
I agree with you - but I do think that his point is that many of these discussions often (and quickly) turn sour when people (in this case, liberals) start calling others "bigot," "racist," etc.
Wow, for someone who thinks their open-minded you just proved yourself wrong, with the last part of #3.
Guess it's true, Liberals are closed-minded.
Many blacks don't like Obama's view either, I've even heard Democrats claim this. If you represent Libs, no wonder people step back when you enter a room.
As far as #4 you think you could move a little closer to the year 2012!!
Really, if someone is a racist against black people, which party do you think they back right now?
Close minded and a logical assumption are two different things.
As far as post number 4, hey, he asked for it. How is Christianity any different than Islam or Judaism? they believe in the same God, they believe in the same holy books (mostly), and they follow most of the same rules.
Just because most christians have evolved beyond the bloody centuries from 12th through the 20th century, doesn't mean that their reign of terror is forgotten.
I agree with you - but I do think that his point is that many of these discussions often (and quickly) turn sour when people (in this case, liberals) start calling others "bigot," "racist," etc.
At least, that's how I understand his question.
Show me proof, please, of most, even a significant number of liberals that start calling people bigots and racists?
My bet, that the number of liberals who use that argument, are probably about as many as racist Republicans. They are the fringe.
Is the truth irrelevant for social liberals?
Let me explain many liberals I come into contact with never care about the truth of the matter, only what "sounds right". For example, liberals will never admit these propositions as true
-One culture/religion can be better than another
-Homosexuality is wrong and destructive
-Abortion is immoral
- people who disagree with Obama do so because of ideas, not his race.
I could go on here, but i think you get the point.
Now these propositions may be false,but what strikes me as odd is that for liberals(many,at least) is that these views can not possibly be true--they are automatically wrong, logically prior to any argument given. Why? because they may "offend" people?
Hypothetically, If I were to express skepticism about homosexual lifestyle/family I am likely to immediately be called "bigot" and "close-minded" without any evidential justifications as to why I am wrong.
Is this view really openminded or does it simply kowtow to whatever is intellectually fashionable at the time? Lastly, can this sort of political attitude actually solve anything?
Your post just proves the opposite of your argument. The Conservatives always assume they are right.
Your first point - One culture is better than the other. Yup, that's what they Europeans thought when they came to the "New World" and killed everyone in their way, and robbed lands that didn't belong to them.
Homosexuality is wrong and destructive. Really? Aren't the straights responsible for Wars around the world since the beginning of time? And calling it wrong....there you go with your own personal beliefs you want to shove down everyone else's throats.
Abortion is immoral. Yes, because only Liberals have abortions.
People who disagree with him..blah, blah. Yeah, only you people believe that living in your bubble.
Why are Republicans so good at telling lies, re-writing history and making up fictional characters to make their points?
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