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Just a friendly reminder that the US doesn't exactly have the best record when it comes to race relations. Blacks were enslaved for 200 years, native Americans pushed further and further west as Europeans continued colonizing their land. Asians put into internment camps and discriminated against before and after WWII.
An interesting fact is that in late 1800's, Idaho was 25% Asian. But they were pushed further west due to the racism and prejudice they faced.
My point is that the people who say "these illegals are ruining my country" (most of whom are white) fail to remember that this wasn't their country to begin with. The people who you deem "illegals" are actually natives, only to be beaten into submission.
Let me make an analogy--let's say Mexicans colonized parts of western Europe and claimed it as their own. And when whites tried to get back into their "own" country to move into a better life, these Mexicans exclaimed, "these illegals are ruining my country!" Would you see something wrong with that?
My point is that the people who say "these illegals are ruining my country" (most of whom are white) fail to remember that this wasn't their country to begin with. The people who you deem "illegals" are actually natives, only to be beaten into submission.
Umm.... no.
Quick history lesson for ya: Spain and later Mexico had a hard time settling in the Southwestern US. At the time of Guadalupe Hidalgo, only 82,000 "Mexicans" lived in the Southwest that now makes up the United States. All but 2000 switched their nationality to "American" following the transfer of territory. Their descendants represent about 9% of Mexican descended persons living in the US today.
Regardless, historic national boundaries do not give anyone a "right" to lands since conquered, bought, sold, or otherwise.
Besides, most illegals from Mexico today are hardly "Mexican" at all, but oftentimes are almost pure indigenous blood because Mexico is a very very racist country that tries it's damndest to keep out illegal immigrants entering ITS Southern border, and uses the United States as a "safety valve" for its own disaffected "brown" population, often from Southern Mexico (around Chiapas, etc.) Vicente Fox is whiter than most Italian guys, the man mowing your lawn is most likely Mayan.
Just a friendly reminder that the US doesn't exactly have the best record when it comes to race relations. Blacks were enslaved for 200 years, native Americans pushed further and further west as Europeans continued colonizing their land. Asians put into internment camps and discriminated against before and after WWII.
Hmmm, the US existed since 1776 (not technically, but lets use that date since it is popular and a few years don't make that much difference) and Lincoln's proclaimation that freed confederate slaves occurred in 1865. That makes Southern US slave time less than 100 years, less if you use actual dates. I don't know when slaves were freed in Northern (Union) states, you may have me with those slaves....not sure.
The vast majority of the Indian tribal eliminations occurred on the eastern coast prior to the US revolution, but you are correct in that the US by and large stopped mass extinction of tribes and began relocating native americans in their expansion in the 1800's. A shameful part of our history.
Likewise the mass incarceration of Asians, Germans, Italians and Polish were a terrible fact of life during WWII. I have not heard of any, but I am sure they also existed during WWI, except I don't think the Asian were included in that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinity & beyond
An interesting fact is that in late 1800's, Idaho was 25% Asian. But they were pushed further west due to the racism and prejudice they faced.
You are right, it is interesting, but were they native american or were they also immigrants to the area? I thought they had migrated from the west coast and then retreated back to famly clusters along the coast where they originally had immigrated from the orient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinity & beyond
My point is that the people who say "these illegals are ruining my country" (most of whom are white) fail to remember that this wasn't their country to begin with. The people who you deem "illegals" are actually natives, only to be beaten into submission.
I was not aware that any native americans have been considered illegals. Who is saying that? I would think the papers would surely pick up on anyone trying to force native Americans off any of the reservations or tribal lands, whichever term in technically correct (I am outside the loop on this topic, sorry)
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinity & beyond
Let me make an analogy--let's say Mexicans colonized parts of western Europe and claimed it as their own. And when whites tried to get back into their "own" country to move into a better life, these Mexicans exclaimed, "these illegals are ruining my country!" Would you see something wrong with that?
LOL, that would be ironic! It would even be like the situation in England now where the Pakistani immigrants are complaining about how the English people are ruining their traditional way of life and diluting their culture.
Just as a point of curiosity, who does have the best record of race relation? Germans tried to exterminate the Jewish population, Britian tried to rule the world, China exterminated several native populations before settling down to communism, arent there still ongoing genocide in Africa, several Baltic countries and I don't think the Palestinian and Jewish peoples could be called poster childern for tolerance of each other. Even our politically neutral Switzerland tried to exterminate the Polish people in the 1300's, I am really at a loss. Who should we use as a role model in this regard?
Hmmm, the US existed since 1776 (not technically, but lets use that date since it is popular and a few years don't make that much difference) and Lincoln's proclaimation that freed confederate slaves occurred in 1865. That makes Southern US slave time less than 100 years, less if you use actual dates. I don't know when slaves were freed in Northern (Union) states, you may have me with those slaves....not sure.
The vast majority of the Indian tribal eliminations occurred on the eastern coast prior to the US revolution, but you are correct in that the US by and large stopped mass extinction of tribes and began relocating native americans in their expansion in the 1800's. A shameful part of our history.
Likewise the mass incarceration of Asians, Germans, Italians and Polish were a terrible fact of life during WWII. I have not heard of any, but I am sure they also existed during WWI, except I don't think the Asian were included in that one.
You are right, it is interesting, but were they native american or were they also immigrants to the area? I thought they had migrated from the west coast and then retreated back to famly clusters along the coast where they originally had immigrated from the orient.
I was not aware that any native americans have been considered illegals. Who is saying that? I would think the papers would surely pick up on anyone trying to force native Americans off any of the reservations or tribal lands, whichever term in technically correct (I am outside the loop on this topic, sorry)
LOL, that would be ironic! It would even be like the situation in England now where the Pakistani immigrants are complaining about how the English people are ruining their traditional way of life and diluting their culture.
Just as a point of curiosity, who does have the best record of race relation? Germans tried to exterminate the Jewish population, Britian tried to rule the world, China exterminated several native populations before settling down to communism, arent there still ongoing genocide in Africa, several Baltic countries and I don't think the Palestinian and Jewish peoples could be called poster childern for tolerance of each other. Even our politically neutral Switzerland tried to exterminate the Polish people in the 1300's, I am really at a loss. Who should we use as a role model in this regard?
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,096 posts, read 1,458,801 times
Reputation: 382
The fuss over illegal immigration is because we have an enormous influx of illegal immigrants that have NO LOYALITY TO AMERICA. Nothing could be worse for any country than its citizens being loyal to another country.
Illegals also drive down wages, put some businesses out of business because they cannot compete with a company that pays no taxes, workers comp, or insurance for their illegal employees. They bankrupt our hospitals and lower the quality of the education in our schools. They have brought diseases to this country that has been eradicated or have become extremely rare.
Check out the wanted criminals on the LA police website and you will see that 90% of those look like illegals. That is just a few of the problems and why all the fuss.
Mexico's President, Felipe Calderon, said “Mexico does not end at its borders. Where there is a Mexican, there is Mexico.”
I don't like immigrants coming to the US unless they live to our standards. Engineers will come to the US and work for $40k a year and have to live like a bum just to make ends meet. Why do you think so many Mexicans live in the same house? because they can't afford to live in their own house. Why don't Americans take the jobs such as landscaping, dry wallers? Because they can't afford to live off those wages. They know they would have to live 14 to a house to make ends meet. If that is how you think any American should live I feel sorry for you and your neighbors.
Don't get me wrong. I think it's great people want to better themselves, but don't make others suffer.
When people have no other choice, no options, and things are so bad that they're willing to risk their life and freedom, and that of their families, to have a chance to have a better life, we're always going to have a problem with "illegal" immigration.
I mean, if you had the misfortune of being born into such a situation, would you not do the same? I know I would.
The solution to this problem is much more nuanced than just raising a fence, a stern "no-no," and driving people back to the border.
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,096 posts, read 1,458,801 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach
I don't like immigrants coming to the US unless they live to our standards. Engineers will come to the US and work for $40k a year and have to live like a bum just to make ends meet. Why do you think so many Mexicans live in the same house? because they can't afford to live in their own house. Why don't Americans take the jobs such as landscaping, dry wallers? Because they can't afford to live off those wages. They know they would have to live 14 to a house to make ends meet. If that is how you think any American should live I feel sorry for you and your neighbors.
Don't get me wrong. I think it's great people want to better themselves, but don't make others suffer.
If we didn't have all the illegal immigrants driving down that wages, jobs would pay a living wage. There are no illegal immigrants where I live and not one job goes undone. The drywaller that lived beside us in CA made $36/hr. Do you really think there is not an American that would work for $36/hr?
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,096 posts, read 1,458,801 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorless
Here's the deal, though:
When people have no other choice, no options, and things are so bad that they're willing to risk their life and freedom, and that of their families, to have a chance to have a better life, we're always going to have a problem with "illegal" immigration.
I mean, if you had the misfortune of being born into such a situation, would you not do the same? I know I would.
The solution to this problem is much more nuanced than just raising a fence, a stern "no-no," and driving people back to the border.
If I could not feed my children I would probably cross the border but it does not make it right or legal. On the other hand if we deported all the illegal immigrants and over 12 million went back to Mexico after having tadted a decent life, do you think they might start making demands on their own leaders?
If I could not feed my children I would probably cross the border but it does not make it right or legal. On the other hand if we deported all the illegal immigrants and over 12 million went back to Mexico after having tadted a decent life, do you think they might start making demands on their own leaders?
I never said it was right or legal - but if I'm in such dire situations those are the last things I'm worried about.
I do think it is a problem that both the US and Mexico have to work out, though. I don't think mass deportation is a practical or possible fix. The implications on our own economy would be devastating.
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