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Old 02-09-2012, 11:17 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,005 posts, read 12,592,213 times
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>They can choose United Healthcare or Blue Cross among others. The union doesn't have their own health insurance. She needed our help since there was so many choices.<

Appears to be a state by state thing. Some are some are not.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:20 AM
 
30,065 posts, read 18,665,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
And there's rich CEO's making substantially more than that saying the same thing. What is the point?

1. corporate CEOs are a part of a buisness that PRODUCES something

2. a union boss produces nothing and is just an expensive cost- kind of like an attorney.

3. A good CEO can turn a poor company into a good one, creating jobs and new products (witness Steve Jobs)

4. A union boss generally costs america jobs
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Educating kids is not cheap. I don't understand why conservatives are so comfortable arguing that you need to spend money to get quality except when it comes to education. Then all of sudden spending money is bad.

Most private schools cost 25k and up. NJ has the highest rate of high school graduation in the entire country. Clearly NJ teachers are doing something right. Many of the other problems come from poor life and parenting decisions by society's dumbest people. It's very hard to help a kid in 40 minutes a day when mommy had him at 15 and daddy's in jail. Teachers can only do so much.
I have to admit, $18,000 is expensive in my mind. Seton Hall Prep is $12,000/yr, which I think is relatively cheap for private schools in NJ, but comparable to the high school i attending in Pennsylvania. While educating a child isn't cheap, some school districts are spending far too much per child. That's not to say they're spending it on teachers necessarily, it's often a bloated Board of Ed or school administration. Seniority rules don't help, because it forces schools to lay off young, less expensive teachers. I'm not saying seniority shouldn't be rewarded to some extent, but when folks like my sister who is in her first year of teaching have a hard time holding a job because of seniority, and not because of merit, that's a bit unfair.

The Unions aren't 100% wrong, but they can improve. I don't see anything wrong with criticizing some union activity, the issue is some people villify them.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:34 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
>I agree. I'm not exactly a defender of the things the NJ teacher's union does but...the schools here are among the best in the country - if his actions are hurting them, I'm not really seeing it.<

His unwillingness to bend and overall stubborn refusal on benefits in some areas is causing layoffs.
1) The days of pensions are numbered. They need to switch to 401Ks like the rest of the country. Yes it sucks. No it cant be helped. (this includes everyone including cops btw)
2) (Largely gone but some hold outs). No deductible no copay insurance is from a bygone era. Yes it sucks, but Im afraid paying say $25 to see a doctor and $15 for a prescription is the norm.
3) (Also going but some hold outs). In the regular workaday world, family health insurance costs the employee about $400 a month for a plan like above. Dont complain too loud, that plan above has a total cost of around $1700 a month and the public is picking that up. Increasingly companies cover the employee only; trust me the $400 a month is much better than having to pay for the spouse and children out of your own pocket.
Yes all this sucks. No it can not be helped. (and no, Im not one in favor of disallowing the union. Still the bennies have to come into line with the private sector.)
I have a pension from my former employer (public accounting firm), and it's quite common in that industry. I'm 30. My former coworker has a pension at his newer employer also, and he's in banking/financial services. Pensions aren't as rare in the private sector as people like to throw out in political conversations.

and i work for a large corporation now, and my family insurance cost is much less expensive than $400/month. I agree, they need to make some concessions on the benefits, but people need to realize, just as if your company was doing it to you, if you keep pushing more and more "cost" on the employee, then you are effectively reducing their salary (compensation). It's hard to get people to take that first step. I know plenty of teachers who have copays, so it's not like that's not out there either.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:35 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 5,119,588 times
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CEO isn't supported by tax dollars. They also can get fired a lot easier than the union bosses.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:41 AM
 
9,727 posts, read 9,729,135 times
Reputation: 6407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Educating kids is not cheap. I don't understand why conservatives are so comfortable arguing that you need to spend money to get quality except when it comes to education. Then all of sudden spending money is bad.

Most private schools cost 25k and up. NJ has the highest rate of high school graduation in the entire country. Clearly NJ teachers are doing something right. Many of the other problems come from poor life and parenting decisions by society's dumbest people. It's very hard to help a kid in 40 minutes a day when mommy had him at 15 and daddy's in jail. Teachers can only do so much.
Teacher should spend 100% of their time on reading, writing, and arithmetic and leave the social work to the parents and professionals.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
The point is that the Left continues to talk out of both sides of their mouth. On the one hand, they shriek about "fairness". Well, fairness with regards to taking tax dollars and redistributing it to whoever they consider worthy.

At the same time, they say life isn't fair. You know, not fair when their salary, lifestyle and elite schools are being called into question.

Obama sends his girls to private school, preaches fairness, then opposes school vouchers. That's the point.
Wait - so someone like the Obamas aren't allowed to send their children to private school, that they can afford, because they also believe that everyone should have access to a quality education at their local public schools? School vouchers is a different issue - and I'm truly town on it. In theory, they sound like a wonderful idea...but to improve schools for everyone, you'd need to have it be more random than just parent-initiated. What good does it to if you leave a handful of kids in schools that are horrible, largely because their parents aren't involved enough? Remember - you're talking about children who can't voluntarily choose a different school, their parents do.

School vouchers solve the problem for PARENTS, not the problem for the children. I'm not oppposed to them, if they help solve the problems.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:47 AM
 
32,064 posts, read 15,062,274 times
Reputation: 13687
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Teacher should spend 100% of their time on reading, writing, and arithmetic and leave the social work to the parents and professionals.
Unfortunately, that's not always the case. Social work seems to be part of teaching now.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:11 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,546 posts, read 21,403,981 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Unfortunately, that's not always the case. Social work seems to be part of teaching now.
Now? Did your schools not have guidance counselors when you were in school? With many dual-income homes and "latch-key kids", social work has been part of schools for a while now. I'm young, but I'm not that young.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:18 PM
 
32,064 posts, read 15,062,274 times
Reputation: 13687
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
Now? Did your schools not have guidance counselors when you were in school? With many dual-income homes and "latch-key kids", social work has been part of schools for a while now. I'm young, but I'm not that young.
I was talking about now but actually I guess it was when I was growing up too. I went to catholic schools and there were no guidance counselors just the nuns that taught us. So they got involved in everything including home life. Well either them or the priests.
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