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Old 02-08-2012, 06:10 AM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,547,627 times
Reputation: 1951

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Or is the purpose of government to protect liberty?

Quote by Thomas Jefferson: "The purpose of government is to enable the people..."

Quote:
“The purpose of government is to enable the people of a nation to live in safety and happiness. Government exists for the interests of the governed, not for the governors.” ― Thomas Jefferson
So does this mean that Jefferson would be happy with today's federal government?
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:23 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,065,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
So does this mean that Jefferson would be happy with today's federal government?
Frankly, I could care less what a slave owner who believed in the inherent inferiority of African people; who was an agronomic anti-industrialist would think 200 years after his death.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:27 AM
 
30,069 posts, read 18,678,343 times
Reputation: 20889
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Frankly, I could care less what a slave owner who believed in the inherent inferiority of African people; who was an agronomic anti-industrialist would think 200 years after his death.

That figures. Most liberals ARE against the concepts of liberty and deriding one of the founding fathers, and probably the mastermind behind our Consitution, is not surprising.

Most intelligent people seek the wisdom of those with superior intellect, rather than presume superiority themselves. The converse of this practice, of course, is the exercise of the ignorant, who suggest greater wisdom than the great men of history. That is what we have come to expect of liberals, who presume that pulling a "D" lever in the voting booth confers them a "Mensa" membership. Get real. I suppose that you have published more extensive and enlightening writings than Jefferson and have established the greatest nation on earth through your "enlightened" views?

What do you think about Mao, Lenin, and Castro?
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:29 AM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,547,627 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Frankly, I could care less what a slave owner who believed in the inherent inferiority of African people; who was an agronomic anti-industrialist would think 200 years after his death.
If you were illegally detained by the police or if you were arrested for speaking out against the government or were beaten up by government thugs because of your religious beliefs you would all of a sudden have a change of heart about a "slave owner who [you assume] believed in the inherent inferiority of African people and who was an agronomic anti-industrialist [in your opinion] 200 years after his death".

Funny how they hate the Founders without considering the protections they built for us that we often take for granted.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC USA
3,457 posts, read 4,655,228 times
Reputation: 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
If you were illegally detained by the police or if you were arrested for speaking out against the government or were beaten up by government thugs because of your religious beliefs you would all of a sudden have a change of heart about a slave owner who believed in the inherent inferiority of African people; who was an agronomic anti-industrialist would think 200 years after his death.

Funny how they hate the Founders without considering the protections they built for us that we often take for granted.
Thinking and liberalism typically do not go hand in hand. Typical too of the post you responded to, find all the bad elements so I can disagree rather than looking at the big picture.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:33 AM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,547,627 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
That figures. Most liberals ARE against the concepts of liberty and deriding one of the founding fathers, and probably the mastermind behind our Consitution, is not surprising.

Most intelligent people seek the wisdom of those with superior intellect, rather than presume superiority themselves. The converse of this practice, of course, is the exercise of the ignorant, who suggest greater wisdom than the great men of history. That is what we have come to expect of liberals, who presume that pulling a "D" lever in the voting booth confers them a "Mensa" membership. Get real. I suppose that you have published more extensive and enlightening writings than Jefferson and have established the greatest nation on earth through your "enlightened" views?

What do you think about Mao, Lenin, and Castro?
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:34 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,300,508 times
Reputation: 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
If you were illegally detained by the police or if you were arrested for speaking out against the government or were beaten up by government thugs because of your religious beliefs you would all of a sudden have a change of heart about a "slave owner who (you assume) believed in the inherent inferiority of African people and who was an agronomic anti-industrialist (by your estimates) 200 years after his death.

Funny how they hate the Founders without considering the protections they built for us that we often take for granted.
Who is this ubiquitous "they" of whom you speak?

My guess is you're trying to slather "Dem darn Liberals" with your broad brush here...

Just want to quickly remind everyone that trampling on freedom in the last 10-20 years has not been an exclusively Democratic proposition. Those who really think that are the worst kind of hypocritical partisans. (ie. Trampling on freedom is bad unless I agree that you shouldn't be doing what the government is telling you not to do.)
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:36 AM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,547,627 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Who is this ubiquitous "they" of whom you speak?

My guess is you're trying to slather "Dem darn Liberals" with your broad brush here...

Just want to quickly remind everyone that trampling on freedom in the last 10-20 years has not been an exclusively Democratic proposition. Those who really think that are the worst kind of hypocritical partisans. (ie. Trampling on freedom is bad unless I agree that you shouldn't be doing what the government is telling you not to do.)
"They" are people who trash the Founding Fathers while living under the civil protections that they designed.

Pure hypocrisy.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Frankly, I could care less what a slave owner who believed in the inherent inferiority of African people; who was an agronomic anti-industrialist would think 200 years after his death.
And that was a common accepted belief back then and a worldwide belief even by the slave traders in Africa.

You cannot and should not judge history using today's standards.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:38 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,300,508 times
Reputation: 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
That figures. Most liberals ARE against the concepts of liberty and deriding one of the founding fathers, and probably the mastermind behind our Consitution, is not surprising.

Most intelligent people seek the wisdom of those with superior intellect, rather than presume superiority themselves. The converse of this practice, of course, is the exercise of the ignorant, who suggest greater wisdom than the great men of history. That is what we have come to expect of liberals, who presume that pulling a "D" lever in the voting booth confers them a "Mensa" membership. Get real. I suppose that you have published more extensive and enlightening writings than Jefferson and have established the greatest nation on earth through your "enlightened" views?

What do you think about Mao, Lenin, and Castro?
Always love when Republicans drape themselves in the American flag and start humming "Our Country 'Tis of Thee" while they tell Muslims they can't build a community center on land that they own...

If the double-standard wasn't SO obvious, I might actually get caught up in the rhetoric.
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