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I said religious and cultural framework, not political framework. Although religion influences culture, and culture obviously influences political systems.
It doesn't need to be discriminatory. It would be sufficient for the county clerk simply to require proof that "until death do us part", or something similar, was included in their marriage vows, before witnesses, and to have the couple acknowledge that they understood what it means.
I don't think this solution would really be effective.
I think the underlying problem with high divorce is that we base our decisions too much on being in love/attraction. Now, being a gay man, I clearly understand the importance of attraction....but it needs to be tempered with other things. Typically, cultures that have arranged marriage have lower divorce becuase older folks understand attraction alone isn't enough to sustain a marriage whereas younger folks let their hormones take over.
I like some of the things author Elizabeth Gilbert says about marriage:
Modern Americans bring to their marriages the most over-stuffled bundle of expectations the institution has ever seen. We expect that our partner will not merely be a decent person, but will also be our soul mate, our best friend, our intellectual companion, our greatest sexual partner and our life's complete inspiration. Nobody in human history has ever asked this much of a companion. It's a lot to ask of one mere mortal, and the inevitable disappointments that follow such giant expectations can cripple marriages.
It turns out that love is a very fragile notion upon which to base a very important and complicated institution. I think most people throughout history would look at the way we choose our marriages today and just think, my God, these people took huge risks. They risk their future, financial stability, property and their heirs on something as fragile and delicate as romantic affection.
It's not that that necessarily means that I advocate a return to arranged marriage, it just helps put in perspective why contemporary western marital arrangements can become so chaotic.
I think the underlying problem with high divorce is that we base our decisions too much on being in love/attraction.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, love properly understood is the very foundation of marriage. But LUV, sex, romance, and warm fuzzies are shaky and ephemeral foundations indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
Now, being a gay man ...
TMI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
.... I clearly understand the importance of attraction....but it needs to be tempered with other things. Typically, cultures that have arranged marriage have lower divorce becuase older folks understand attraction alone isn't enough to sustain a marriage whereas younger folks let their hormones take over.
Absolutely true. I'm in favor of arranged marriages, whereby parents guide and counsel their children, but not in the Mohammedan sense of ignoring the consent of the spouses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
I like some of the things author Elizabeth Gilbert says about marriage:
Modern Americans bring to their marriages the most over-stuffled bundle of expectations the institution has ever seen. We expect that our partner will not merely be a decent person, but will also be our soul mate, our best friend, our intellectual companion, our greatest sexual partner and our life's complete inspiration. Nobody in human history has ever asked this much of a companion. It's a lot to ask of one mere mortal, and the inevitable disappointments that follow such giant expectations can cripple marriages.
Wow, that's a fantastic quote. And I'll tell you the reason behind this: disastrously low birthrates in the West and the corresponding demise of extended families.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 02-13-2012 at 08:50 PM..
Certainly our marriage laws, with their Christian origins, curtail the "free exercise" of religion for some - Mormons and others, for example, who practice polygamy.
FYI, the fastest conceivable way for a Mormon to get himself excommunicated from the Church is to be found to be practicing polygamy.
Being a child of divorced parents and a soon-to-be-divorced parent myself--not by my choice--I agree that the effects of divorce are probably exactly what the study describes. However,
1. "Christian" marriage? WTF? Probably as much as a quarter of the U.S. population is not even nominally Christian, let alone devoutly Christian, and no law is going to convince them to be otherwise. It wouldn't work even apart from the obvious constitutional implications.
2. Changing the law to make marriage "indissoluble" would not change anyone's inner disposition. Compelling someone to stay in a marriage will not make anyone less self-centered, which is the source of the problem.
I do believe that divorce is too easy to get and there is not enough obloquy attached to seeking one, but it has to be there as a last-ditch measure for true cases of abuse.
I realize I am just one person and not a statistic, but with that said, my parents are divorced and I am happier it's that way. Better they are living separately than all the bickering and abuse that goes on when both of them are in the same room. They are both much more relaxed and better people now because of it. They had a 33-year run but people change a lot in three decades.
I also left the woman I very foolishly married because she abused me severely and threatened my life many times. I completely did not see this when we married because she knew how to hide that inclination and bury it deep until we tied the knot. When things started going downhill, I tried my hardest to make it work but it just didn't. I haven't officially divorced her yet, but I am thinking about taking that final step. A lot of people make the mistake of rushing into marriage and don't realize how much they will change in just a few short years. Many people make the same mistake I did and they need to have the option to have an "out".
Honestly, I think it would make more sense just to have marriage licenses expire every 5 years, unless renewed. Couples that are still going at it strong can renew their license and those who don't can just wait till those five years are up. I think the burden of proof should lie on the side of proving that it's working (renewing marriage) rather than on proving that it's not working (filing divorce).
It's long past time for a return to social, legal and political support for indissoluable Christian marriage.
Atheists have a lower divorce rate than Christians, especially evangelicals.
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.
The Associated Press analyzed divorce statistics from the US Census Bureau. They found that Massachusetts had the lowest divorce rate in the U.S. at 2.4 per 1,000 population. Texas had the highest rate at 4.1 per 1,000. They found that the highest divorce rates are found in the "Bible Belt." U.S. divorce rates: for various faith groups, age groups and geographical areas
Atheists have a lower divorce rate than Christians, especially evangelicals.
Clever. But in order to be divorced, one first needs to be married, and atheists have much lower rates of marriage - and higher rates of cohabitation - than the general population.
Therefore, atheists who do marry are self-selected to be the most committed to marriage.
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