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Old 02-16-2012, 07:57 AM
 
6,757 posts, read 8,288,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kkaos2 View Post
Even though it is the same God the Father it's not as simple as that. It's not just another language, it's another faith tradition. If you say "There is no God but Allah" then you are rejecting the divinity of Jesus Christ and accepting Mohammed as a true prophet. Therefore it is proper for the Christian student to refuse to sing the song. As it would be appropriate for a Muslim student to refuse to sing a song that praised Jesus as the Son Of God. As it would be appropriate for a Jewish student, who rejects both Mohammed and Jesus, to refuse to sing either song. A tolerant individual would respect that these are matters of importance for people of faith and not toss it off as no big deal.
I would agree with you except for a couple of things - it's not a worship song, it's a song from a movie. Also, it was voluntary, so the kid was perfectly free NOT to sing in the choir without making a big deal of the religious aspect of the song. I've sung in choirs, and the important bit is the music; I've sung many things that I would disagree with in other situations, but that were appropriate in the choir setting.

Additionally, a review of the translated lyric - "There is no truth but Allah (God)" would be easily reconciled by a Christian as "There is no truth but God (the Father and Son - and Holy Spirit, if you are so inclined)". In Christian traditions, the Holy Trinity is that God in all three incarnations are one.

The other lyric they mentioned - "Allah is the only eternal and immortal" can be reconciled the same way by Christians. So, in my mind (raised Pentecostal, thank you very much), this is still much ado about nothing.

By the way, thank you for a reasonable response. I've become unaccustomed to them here, for obvious reasons.
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:59 AM
 
25,849 posts, read 16,540,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
I agree with taking the words 'under God' out of the pledge.

They were not original; added in the 1950's, I think.

I mean, the next word after 'under God' is 'indivisible', which is ironic, since not everyone believes in god, which is creating 'division' between believers and non-believers in the same country.
Funny they didn't throw it "and I pledge to kill commies" if it was done in the 50's.
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:11 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,700,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
This kid has an issue. Best he not be there anyway. Everyone wins.
Yes, a very good issue. Besides that, public schools shouldn't be singing religious songs. If the government is so adamant about enforcing separation of church and state, then let it do so equally across the board. Problem solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
Why does he want to hide it?
He didn't, but is aware that that is one of the first charges that would be brought against him by liberals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
However, to maintain that rigid separation and to be fair, a school should also have Ramadan and Hanukkah programs as well. Since I would no more want my grandkids singing religious songs in those than Muslim's want their kids singing Christian songs in school, how about we just eliminate them all from the school house and keep religion where it belongs...at home and at the church/mosque/synagogue/etc.?

And, I'm a hard-shelled, Southern Baptist Sunday School teacher, so what does that make me?


[quote=Emeraldmaiden;23006775]Besides, "Allah" means "God", and Islam is also an Abrahamic religion - isn't that the same God that Christians worship? Sans Christ, of course, but God the Father? Same as Yahweh. So some of you are saying that worshiping the same God in another language (even though it's not a worship song) is worshipping false gods? Interesting. [quote]

It's not the same God that Christians worship. Islam has its own version in Allah. As someone posted (correctly, I might add), it leaves out the divinity of Jesus and reduces Him to a mortal prophet. I could continue, but we'd easily get too far off topic if we got into the differences, so do some independent study and you will see that Allah is not Yahweh.
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:12 AM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,942 posts, read 10,259,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Hmm, it's interesting the people defending the praise Allah song being included in a public school choir include some who say no to religious themed Christmas songs at public schools. Christian=bad; Islam=good as far as liberals are concerned.
No, I don't believe anyone is saying that. I think the issue is, if a song with a christian message is allowed, then what is the problem with a song with a message reflecting a different religion?

If it bothers the kid that much, then he can just do what I do when I find myself somewhere were the pledge of allegiance is being said (usually at a school function) - when it gets to the part about "one nation under god," I just don't say.....anything. I'll recite it up to that point and after, but I will not recite "one nation under god."

I do have to admit, though, that when I go to my son's school band concerts and there are songs with any kind of a religious theme - hard to avoid at the Christmas concert, in particular - it bothers me a little bit. Not a huge issue, and one I won't even have to think about after he graduates next year, but still a bit of an issue since I tend to believe that NO songs with a religious message OF ANY KIND should be allowed in a public school program.
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,755 posts, read 9,652,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Funny they didn't throw it "and I pledge to kill commies" if it was done in the 50's.
a brief history of the pledge:

In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,720,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
He didn't, but is aware that that is one of the first charges that would be brought against him by liberals.
But is the charge wrong? Isn't it bigoted to be against singing the Islamic song but not the Christian song? If that's how he feels, he should just accept it. It's not against the law to be a bigot in this case. Kid needs to man up. His actions already show his bigotry.
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:59 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,158,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
"A Colorado high school student says he quit the school choir after an Islamic song containing the lyric 'there is no truth except Allah' made it into the repertoire. "I don’t want to come across as a bigot or a racist, but I really don’t feel it is appropriate for students in a public high school to be singing an Islamic worship song,” Harper told KREX-TV. 'This is worshipping another God, and even worshipping another prophet ... I think there would be a lot of outrage if we made a Muslim choir say Jesus Christ is the only truth.' But district spokesman Jeff Kirtland defended the decision to include the song."

Colorado Student Quits High School Choir Over Islamic Song Praising 'Allah' | Fox News

Meanwhile, in Massachusetts -

"An Acton, Mass., school district is being sued by parents over the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance, which they say discriminates against atheists. The anonymous parents of three children in two Acton schools, filing as John and Jane Doe, are suing the district to have the words "under God" removed from the pledge, saying it is discriminatory against their children who are being raised as atheists, WHDH-TV, Boston, reported."

Mass. parents sue to remove 'under God' from pledge | Times 247

Comments?
I have no idea why you posted two different topics....the only way they tie in is to point out how bringing

ANYONE'S "god" into a


PUBLIC

venue causes trouble, and is insensitive, illegal, boorish, stupid, and ignorant.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:11 AM
 
2,472 posts, read 3,199,324 times
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This is clockwork. All of a sudden, religious factions care about the separation of church and state once another faction does the same thing they used to do.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:13 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Hmm, it's interesting the people defending the praise Allah song being included in a public school choir include some who say no to religious themed Christmas songs at public schools. Christian=bad; Islam=good as far as liberals are concerned.
Hmmm, it's interesting that certain idiots are unable to understand that an EXTRACURRICULAR activity is EXTRACURRICULAR. Outside the curriculum. Not part of the curriculum. Not graded. No school credit awarded for participation.

The choir sings competitively. The song choice was about showcasing the students singing abilities, not about religion in any way. The students were given the option of not singing certain parts of the program. This student decided that not only would he not sing certain parts of the program, but he wouldn't sing at all. That's his choice. And it's the choice of the other members of the choir to sing and to compete.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,492 posts, read 26,603,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
And may the gods strike down those who sing off key.
It strikes me these posts from Fox news are similar to christian outcries in the 60's and 70's when parents were up in arms if kids would learn Hannukah songs for choir, sung in conjunction with Xmas songs...

Anti-semitism in another form, god bless Fox for creating even more hate and diversionary tactics while the American economy crumbles.

And for those who think we are in a "christian law nation", please take heed that no longer do we testify in court and swear on a Bible. When proffering testimony, you merely take an oath to tell the truth.

Christianity is not "the law of the land" no matter how many Fox news shows you regurgitate.
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