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Old 02-16-2012, 11:44 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 5,131,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Hmmm, it's interesting that certain idiots are unable to understand that an EXTRACURRICULAR activity is EXTRACURRICULAR. Outside the curriculum. Not part of the curriculum. Not graded. No school credit awarded for participation.

The choir sings competitively. The song choice was about showcasing the students singing abilities, not about religion in any way. The students were given the option of not singing certain parts of the program. This student decided that not only would he not sing certain parts of the program, but he wouldn't sing at all. That's his choice. And it's the choice of the other members of the choir to sing and to compete.
So is this any different than a High School football team bowing in prayer before a football game?
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:45 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,982,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theroc5156 View Post
The beef is that it's still a school-sponsored activity and religion should be totally removed from the schools, right?
The songs aren't being sung for religious reasons. There is no religious context. They were chosen as showcases for musicality. The vocal range, the rhythm demands allow the singers to demonstrate their mastery of voice as an instrument.

And the beef isn't that it's a school-sponsored activity where religion should be removed. The beef is that one student is insisting that all the other choir members abide by his personal choices. He doesn't want to sing this particular piece, and he doesn't want the other choir members to sing it either. Evidently, he's forgotten that the other choir members have a choice as well.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:54 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,982,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theroc5156 View Post
So is this any different than a High School football team bowing in prayer before a football game?
Yep. It's different.

First of all, many schools give football players a credit for phys ed for their participation on the football team. And, of course, some schools give choir members credit for music for their participation in choirs, but this school does not. This choir is EXTRACURRICULAR.

Secondly, football players are free to pray before a football game. Just like any student is free to pray during school, as long as they don't disrupt others with their prayers. There is NO law or rules that prohibit prayer in schools. There are laws which prohibit school officials or employees from LEADING students in prayer. An important distinction, because school officials or employees represent the school, and when they endorse a particular religion, it's perceived by students that the school is endorsing a particular religion. And since students of a public school presumably are members of a variety of different religions, a school endorsing one is saying that the other religious beliefs are inadequate in some way. It's an unacceptable message for a school to send to students.

This choir's selection of music isn't sending any such message. The selection was based on musicality, not on religion, there is no religious context to the music choice or to the performance, which also includes a Christian selection.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,364,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
It's an after school, voluntary activity, so what's the beef? Does anyone object to the Christian song too? If not, why not?



Old news. This happens all the time.
I just saw that kid on TV with Megyn Kelly and he is about to be on again. I love to see any teen ager who has principles and is willing to live by them. It makes no difference when they sing that song. Praising Allah, as those words do, is wrong as far as that kid has been taught. The choir lost a member who I support 100%.

As for the Pledge case, it is much worse, as far as I am concerned. Why do those who believe in God, (still in a heavy majority) have to be pushed around by people whose kids are not forced to say the Pledge or at least the part the parents don't like? Can you or any judges who rule in favor of atheists explain that to me?
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:58 AM
 
588 posts, read 1,017,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldmaiden View Post
So some of you are saying that worshiping the same God in another language (even though it's not a worship song) is worshipping false gods? Interesting.

Don't worry, I don't expect any coherent answers, just a bunch of sputtering "you stupid liberal, you are wrong", so I'm not getting my hopes up.
Nothing quite like watching a battle of the sky-daddys. Even better when they turn out to be the same sky-daddy! Oh religion, how you bring people together. What would we do without you.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,946 posts, read 26,662,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Yes, a very good issue. Besides that, public schools shouldn't be singing religious songs. If the government is so adamant about enforcing separation of church and state, then let it do so equally across the board. Problem solved.



He didn't, but is aware that that is one of the first charges that would be brought against him by liberals.



....
You need to recognize that liberals don't really care about the seperation of church and state. Their posts on this thread shows that pretty clearly. It's simply a means of attacking Christians. I'm an atheist, but can't help but see the hyprocasy.

What the school (funded by the public) did was wrong. If there is to be a seperation of church and state, it needs to be applied equally.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,364,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
This kid has an issue. Best he not be there anyway. Everyone wins.
He sure as hell does have an issue. However, he did what his conscience told him and I bet he wasn't the only one who felt that way, he was just the one who stood up to that teacher. I don't think that the only Muslim song they could find to sing was one that extolls Allah.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,364,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
And may the gods strike down those who sing off key.
Now there is something that kid could have done. Sing off key on those words loudly enough that people could hear him. Yeah, I think that is a good idea.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,364,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
I agree with taking the words 'under God' out of the pledge.

They were not original; added in the 1950's, I think.

I mean, the next word after 'under God' is 'indivisible', which is ironic, since not everyone believes in god, which is creating 'division' between believers and non-believers in the same country.
Was it not an act of Congress that inserted those words? Is there a chance that you atheists will get enough votes in Congress to abolish the terrible words sometime soon? Maybe you will have to live with them.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:05 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,982,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
You need to recognize that liberals don't really care about the seperation of church and state. Their posts on this thread shows that pretty clearly. It's simply a means of attacking Christians. I'm an atheist, but can't help but see the hyprocasy.

What the school (funded by the public) did was wrong. If there is to be a seperation of church and state, it needs to be applied equally.
It IS applied equally.

The song is MUSIC. It's not RELIGION unless that's the context that the music is being performed in. And in this case, that's not the context. Moreover, ALL members of the choir are permitted to choose whether they want to sing the song or not. This kid is trying to take away the other members' choice. He doesn't get to do that.
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