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Then, he must fall into the first category. Most objective physicians would realize that taking the profit out of the system will squelch research and development, as in Canada and Europe.
While for me, the jury is out on whether UHI will or will not work, I believe in the truth of this statement. The physicians we are talking about, while not purely guided by profit, do not operate purely out of altruism either.
Objective physicians realize that NHI would reduce income for physicians and other healthcare workers, thereby reducing the number of those willing to enter into the profession. This would increase their workload, thereby increasing administrative costs, thereby reducing available medical equipment, thereby increasing waiting times for diagnostic procedures, as it has in Canada and Europe.
Your statements have no basis in truth and you have NO proof that what you speak of is true whatesoever. Most physicians do not get into medicine for the "money" first of all. They get into medicine because they like helping people, they care and they are scientific by nature and so enjoy the work itself. The money just comes with the job. If money is what motivated a Dr. to be a Dr. there are several fields they could have entered that would have taken a lot less work, schooling and money to pay for schooling so that they can "get rich". Their may be a few doctors who only care about "profits" and making a lot of money (bet most of them go into plastic surgery ) but these doctors are probably NOT the Dr. you want on your side when you're sick and fighting a disease and I can't imagine that they'd like their job very much if it's only the money that is motivating them.
Your statement about ressearch is quite ignorant and again has no basis in reality. If you go back to some of Geero's posts and links you'll be linked to many hospitals in the U.K that are top notch teaching hospitals on the cutting edge of technology and research... and they are all NHI..
And I believe quite the opposite is true. If you bothered to read some of what I posted it breaks down how Dr's have to spend so much time and money fighting insurance companies for what is best for their patietns.. nearly 35 hours a week! They'd have more time for patients if your remove that obstacle.
We're talking about removing INSURANCE companies and INSURANCE company profits.. we are not referring to Drug companies and research etc.
You'll need to back up your statements with some proof ... because right now you're arguments are weak and just BS with no semblence of being a true or real statement...just another smoke screen to scare people away from a NHI or UHI
While for me, the jury is out on whether UHI will or will not work, I believe in the truth of this statement. The physicians we are talking about, while not purely guided by profit, do not operate purely out of altruism either.
Of course they do not .. and neither does anyone else in society. We all want to make money..
But.. the statement he made about research etc. is purely false with no evidence to back it up. If you look at Geeros links to NHI Hospitals in the U.K he has provided..you'll see some, ifnot all that he's linked to , are teaching hospitals very much on the cutting edge of technology etc. Besides, with a UHI we're not talking about cutting out research and touching drug companies.. we're talking about removing insurance company profits and decisions on patients based solely on that profit from the equation AND making sure that all are covered for medical care .. and it doens't really affect pharmacuticals or research whatsoever.
TM - are you proposing then that all current employees of insurance companies, hospitals, etc. become government employees? If you have ever worked in a large corporation, you would know that career mobility is already limited by the sheer size of the orgnization. Can you imagine all of these thousands of people being government employees? How about we ask some government employees in the forum to speak up here regarding their career possibilities where they are. I don't think you fully grasp the whole economic interaction of all the forces that are at play here. While your obvious passion for this topic is commendable, it isn't as simple as you make it out to be, because, TM if the answer to all this is a matter of posting links, you know you could replace Bernanke right now, or run for President and win.
Your statements have no basis in truth and you have NO proof that what you speak of is true whatesoever. Most physicians do not get into medicine for the "money" first of all. They get into medicine because they like helping people, they care and they are scientific by nature and so enjoy the work itself. The money just comes with the job. If money is what motivated a Dr. to be a Dr. there are several fields they could have entered that would have taken a lot less work, schooling and money to pay for schooling so that they can "get rich". Their may be a few doctors who only care about "profits" and making a lot of money (bet most of them go into plastic surgery ) but these doctors are probably NOT the Dr. you want on your side when you're sick and fighting a disease and I can't imagine that they'd like their job very much if it's only the money that is motivating them.
Yeah, most doctors don't get into medicine for the money, but it is something that helps keep them there. It takes many years to become a doctor, a lot doctors work long hours, it can be very stressful job, and the last thing doctors need is less pay and more bureaucratic hassles.
Yeah, most doctors don't get into medicine for the money, but it is something that helps keep them there. It takes many years to become a doctor, a lot doctors work long hours, it can be very stressful job, and the last thing doctors need is less pay and more bureaucratic hassles.
Frank.. your statement is a statement that is IN support of UHI.. you dont' even realize it and would have if you read soem of the links.
First.. Dr's in Canada, UK and France do very well.. Those in UK are still private sector as are those in Canada. They are not paid a "fixed" salary set by the government that most would like people to believe with a limit on their income.
Secondly... right now doctors use 10% of their income on fighting the bureaucracy of the insurance companies.. fighting claims with a bean counter protecting the "profits" of their bosses without any regard for the actual well being of the patient. On average Dr's dedicate about 35 hours a week to this.. which takes time away from patients and is what stresses out Dr's most.
An NHI would REMOVE all that excess paperwork and staff.. etc. from the equation cutting out a lot of Dr's overhead and freeing up more of their time to concentrate on individual patients attentin, etc.
Money would still be there for Dr's to make.. and make lots of it.. but with less BS than they must deal with now.. less stress dealing with the insurance companies.. etc. It's all there in the links I have provided.
For physicians, the gratifications of healing give way to anger and alienation in a system that treats sick people as commodities and doctors as investors’ tools. In private practice we waste countless hours on billing and bureaucracy. For the uninsured, we avoid procedures, consultations, and costly medications. In HMOs we walk a tightrope between thrift and penuriousness, under the surveillance of bureaucrats who prod us to abdicate allegiance to patients, and to avoid the sickest, who may be unprofitable. In academia, we watch as the scholarly traditions of openness and collaboration give way to secrecy and assertions of private ownership of vital ideas; the search for knowledge displaced by a search for intellectual property.
TM - are you proposing then that all current employees of insurance companies, hospitals, etc. become government employees? If you have ever worked in a large corporation, you would know that career mobility is already limited by the sheer size of the orgnization. Can you imagine all of these thousands of people being government employees? How about we ask some government employees in the forum to speak up here regarding their career possibilities where they are. I don't think you fully grasp the whole economic interaction of all the forces that are at play here. While your obvious passion for this topic is commendable, it isn't as simple as you make it out to be, because, TM if the answer to all this is a matter of posting links, you know you could replace Bernanke right now, or run for President and win.
First.. I wuold keep posting just the articles so that you dont' have to click through to the links.. but it's against the board rules as I found out yesterday and got my lashes for posting an entire article. Secondly.. I link to the information because it is a source of information to back up what my arguments have been on these boards the entire time.
The PNHP has actually put forth a full outlined proposal at http://www.pnhp.org/publications/pro..._insurance.php which
adresses the issue you are talking about.. and rather than me misquote it, it's best to read it for yourself so that you are actually reading it from the horses mouth.. These people are more knowledgeable than me and say it best, after all.. It does not propose that they all be government employees.. that is NOT what having an NHI or UHI is.
I have been for UHI for a long time.. and the more I read and learn the more I'm convinced. Rather than believing the naysayers and the "fear propoganda' they use against it (which is the insurance companies that put this in the media and in peoples heads...can you say baa baa baa) if people would just simply get on teh net and READ about a UHI and NHI.. true proposals that are thought out, concise...etc. .then see for themselves what UHI and NHI is in other nations.. their eyes would be so open an they'd be kicking themselves for just buying the BS that the insurance companies try to sell.. whose motivations are purely to keep raping us of our money while denying us the care we all need.
Would a UHI limit malpractice suits and damage awards?
From what I read ..one of the many problems with a malpractice suite is that part of what aperson sues for is future medical costs.. because when a person in the U.S gets injured and then hasa chronic condition their ability to get or keep insurance becomes extremely difficult and expensive.. sowhen they sue they then need to recover future medical expenses. With a UHI system there is no need for a monetary award because that person will forever have the medical care they need without the expense coming from them or the fear that they will not be covered..That's one way that awards would end up becoming less.. which translates into lower costs for dr's as well for the ever expensive insurance.
The lawsuites as far as limiting damages is something that needs to be addressed with seperate legislation and yes.. needs to be addressed..but that is seperate from the insurance issue from a patients side. We're talking about getting covereage for all and switching to a one payer system. Lawsuit and litigation is a seperate issue that will need it's own legislation to address.
From what I read ..one of the many problems with a malpractice suite is that part of what aperson sues for is future medical costs.. .
Actually - the punitive damage award issue is the major issue.
A major part of your office visit charges goes towards malpractice insurance premiums. Let me give you an analogy.
We snow ski. We buy lift tickets (all day). The cost of that ticket is $100.00. $25.00 of the price is for liability insurance - and its that high because of .... "punitive damage" awards
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