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Where's your evidence for this "large percentage?" Is it anecdotal? And does "misusing" and "abusing" simply mean using the necessary means to get necessary care, without having the ability to pay? Our emergency rooms wouldn't be clogged if everyone could get to the doctor's office.
The contention is what is good for the country. Certainly, providing everything to everyone would temporarily raise the "happiness" level for the country. Yet, to demonstrate the danger of this. let's reduce this to a more personal and simplistic level. Let's imagine that you have a 25 year old son who can't hold a job, has a broken down vehicle, and who lives in your basement. What would be the ramifications on him, on you, and on your budget, of buying him a new car and giving him a portion of your paycheck every week? Please, honestly answer this question.
What would be the ramifications of keeping him away from the hospital when he gets sick, or kicking him out on the street with nothing but the shirt on his torso and the underwear on his pelvis, in the middle of winter? There is such thing as a happy medium sometimes, you know. Not everything is black and white.
What would be the ramifications of keeping him away from the hospital when he gets sick, or kicking him out on the street with nothing but the shirt on his torso and the underwear on his pelvis, in the middle of winter? There is such thing as a happy medium sometimes, you know. Not everything is black and white.
If you want to comment, why not answer the question I posed? If you do, I will be more than happy to answer yours.
It's irrelevant, we're not talking about buying people cars or giving them any more than the basic necessities of life. But to answer your question, I'd assume that the new car would probably help the guy to find a new job that he could hold, and as long as he wasn't leading a life of luxury it might help him get back on his feet, at least a lot faster than if he had no car and was homeless.
It's irrelevant, we're not talking about buying people cars or giving them any more than the basic necessities of life. But to answer your question, I'd assume that the new car would probably help the guy to find a new job that he could hold, and as long as he wasn't leading a life of luxury it might help him get back on his feet, at least a lot faster than if he had no car and was homeless.
If he couldn't hold a job with an old car, why would he hold one with a new one. The point is that you cannot change ones poor character by providing for what should be their responsibilities. By throwing him out, as we did with our son (the hardest thing my wife and I have ever had to do), he finally realized that he was responsible for his own life and is now doing what he needs to do to help himself. I am confident that he would still be here in our basement going from job to job, just surviving on the food in our pantry. This same scenerio occurs with most of those who live off the taxpayer dole. The longer they are sustained by taxpayer resources, the longer they live in the conditions they currently live in.
No, the large percentage of those who misuse and abuse the current system is what makes me opposed to socialized healthcare.
You don't have any "outstanding questions" for ME in this thread, so how about not dodging fishmonger's question and provide us some cold hard evidence as to where you come up with endemic "large percentage" abuse of "the current system."
As if there isn't abuse in EVERY or ALL kinds of systems, private and public!!
You don't have any "outstanding questions" for ME in this thread, so how about not dodging fishmonger's question and provide us some cold hard evidence as to where you come up with endemic "large percentage" abuse of "the current system."
As if there isn't abuse in EVERY or ALL kinds of systems, private and public!!
Sure, there are abuses in all systems. The problme is that public assistance is mandantory vs. private systems are discretionary. I don't have any cold hard evidence, only observations. Unfortunately, advocates of public assistance would halt any study done to document the percentage of abuses.
I would love to see it, but I couldn't see it ever happening here, without a major change in attitude in the sense of seeing healthcare as a right as opposed to a for-profit privilege, only available to those who can afford to pay for it.
The government should do something to sort out the current healthcare crisis. We have public schools, fire departments, police...all vital SERVICES that we need as individuals and as a community as a whole, so what's the difference with healthcare? Like I said, I don't see the US ever having a fully socialized system because many people see socialized healthcare as some sort of evil, short of becoming the old Soviet Union. However, to even just begin to sort out this mess, the government should step in to do the following:
- Impose tough regulations on insurance companies to ensure that no one can be denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions
- Force insurance companies to make their financial records public, force them to plough some of their huge profits back into the system to make healthcare more affordable, as opposed to paying their CEO's and shareholders multi-million dollar bonuses.
- Force pharmaceutical corporations to devote more of their huge profits to reduce the costs of prescription drugs, as opposed to the huge amounts of money they also award to their shareholders and CEO's and the huge amount of money they blow on advertising.
- Extend Medicare/Medicaid to a higher proportion of people who simply cannot afford insurance. Include making healthcare completely FREE for under 18's (including dental).
- Streamline the system by cutting down on red tape/corporate bureaucracy (just as bad as government bureaucracy, after all).
- Encourage more 'preventative' medicine, i.e. taking care of yourself, eating correctly and exercising, as opposed to "take this pill, take that pill" and "eat at McDonalds".
Basically, we need to take greed out of the equation when it comes to healthcare. I don't like the for-profit system, because it's leaving a lot of people behind. If people can't afford to go to the doctor and put their health problems off until they become emergency room problems -- that’s a bad thing.
Don't give me that crap about how people are out there wasting money on CD's, Starbucks, etc....none of that compares to a $40,000 hospital bill and imminent financial ruin.
Let's face facts, as human beings, we are ALL prone to illness, no matter how much we try to take responsibility in taking care of ourselves. Cancer doesn't care who it affects, rich, poor, healthy or unhealthy (apart from cancers caused by smoking cigarettes). Just like we all need the police, schools, fire departments, immigration control, we all need healthcare too.
Without mentioning names, the attitudes of many people in this forum when it comes to healthcare (and the poor in general) disappoint me. We're all entitled to our opinions, but I don't see how you can be so blinded by right-wing rhetoric that you can actually sit there and pass judgment on poor people, blaming them for their problems and accusing them of simply making "bad choices".
I'm not advocating giving people free cars, free food, free houses...I'm talking about providing universal healthcare to all, based on need as opposed to ability to pay. Honestly, I think that 'for-profit' needs to be removed from the healthcare equation, or the problem is only going to get worse IMHO.
The right-wing will continue to do everything in their power to keep/defend the current system, by making you afraid of any form of government control when it comes to healthcare, as if socialized healthcare is one step away from Soviet-style Communism. They believe that the current system represents freedom, when it fact, all it's done is given a small minority of people the freedom to get insanely rich, while the rest of us struggle with ever-increasing costs and the worry that we're one illness away from complete and utter financial ruin.
Look, I am pro-capitalism, but there are certain basic services in life that we all need and should not be operated for profit, i.e. schools, fire departments, the police, the armed forces, highways and healthcare. Without these vital services, society as a whole wouldn't be able to function. It just seems to me that many people would rather spend billions on a pointless war instead of investing in a quality, affordable healthcare system for all Americans - a system that the richest country on earth deserves.
Last edited by Livinginabox; 09-22-2007 at 09:24 AM..
Sure, there are abuses in all systems. The problme is that public assistance is mandantory vs. private systems are discretionary. I don't have any cold hard evidence, only observations. Unfortunately, advocates of public assistance would halt any study done to document the percentage of abuses.
Ok, so I'll take that as a "no." Government agencies, if they WANT funding NEED to analyze AND there's constant oversight. There's also a little agency called the GAO.
Indeed, with emerging technologies, catching "cheaters" in all realms of government gets easier and easier. We've had quite a number of cases involving property tax cheaters here in Florida using "database sharing" with other states to catch exemption fraud.
Besides, what kind of "abuse," exactly, do you forsee under universal health insurance that wouldn't or doesn't exist in the private system now? (Besides the ABUSE of citizens by private companies denying or dropping coverage)?
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