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With all due respect, what about George Bush. Would you have been able to F' up that many times and still be given chances over and over?
If you don't have money and connections, one F up can ruin your life, or at least the possible heights you can attain.
People with money and connections have a much larger safety net. You screw up, lose a job, daddy can get you another one. You can't pay your bills? Daddy will float you.
Well what if you don't have connections to another job? What if Daddy can't float you?
The point being, is that the lower you are on the economic scale, the lesser degrees of margins you have to mess up. If you have less margin for error, there is a larger chance that you will suffer a major setback with a cascading effect on your entire life.
Do you refute that?
Yes I do, its assumptive and the fact that you latch on to "Bush" as an example really shows that you have some very strong bias issues. Seriously, get off the bush thing. You hate him, I get it. Let it go.
I have several friends who have made big mistakes and were able to pay the consequences and later build a successful life for themselves.
If you mean they can't be president or something that big, well that would be kind of an assumption. Every politician has skeletons in their closet. Money does "forgive" people. I guess, well, you can make enough of it and it will forgive anything. Look at Hollywood and sport stars. Most of them are major screw ups and not just one, but multiple times.
Problem is, many people F up, and then spend the rest of their time blaming others for that F up so they can never repair it. If you want to say a murderer has a hard time, or a major crime convicted felon, sorry boo hoo, there are screw ups you can repair from and there are those that carry a scar that follows them. Those people will have to live with that.
Again, I have seen many people make mistakes and repair them. You can accept that and try to improve or you can spend all day whining about some political figure and saying "its unfair". /shrug
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Where? Not in this country.
Then you know nothing of the system. We have welfare, low income help for all kinds of expenses ranging from day care, to utilities, to work pools, etc... We have free medical care programs for low income. We have work programs and school tuition programs. There are many many more as well.
Though I know very few who actually used them with good intent. Most saw it the same way Paniolo Cowgirl sees the government. A money bag to abuse and get whats yours.
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Only if you consider standards on par with Slovakia or Mexico.
Sorry, Ive seen them, watched people on them, as I said most abusing them but some using them as a kick start. Sounds like you are too busy complaining about how life is terrible and how there is no hope so you seem to ignore what is there. A common problem for the people who stay at the bottom. They are too busy telling everyone how they have no chances or opportunities and miss them because of it.
Maybe people didn't read or pay attention enough in economics class to realize that free markets require and work best with "perfect information."
Choose product A over B because X, Y, Z. Or price if there is no substantial difference.
They know the gist: "Free market is good".... but fall flat when that ideology is adhered to without evaluating each market individually.
Access to healthcare, however (which is a distinct market from healthcare itself) is NOT an arena where the consumer has "perfect information."
I have yet to have anybody EVER explain to me satisfactorily why private, profit-driven insurance is an asset to healthcare quality and so much better than government health insurance such as Medicare.
Aye, people pay way too much for things because they are either too lazy to inform themselves are really don't care. I can't tell you how many times I saw people walking into a gas station and buy something that was 3-5 times more expensive than if they walked two blocks down to the super market. Free economies have trouble when its consumers act like mindless zombie slaves.
tsk tsk EDNurse, my wife dealt with your offices day in and day out. Most of the time, the office employee's would NOT follow the proper procedure. They would file the wrong form, then the insurance company wouldn't catch it and would have to deny it where you would start all over again. Don't pawn this off as not any responsibility of the doctors office, they are BIG problem in the industry.
Ahhh! The right form, the proper procedure, having to start all over again...yes I know. All of this costs a lot of time and money.
Sounds more bureaucratic than the federal government. Seriously, there has to be a way to simplify payment. I take care of patients--I won't deal with insurance. But I have seen insurance issues delay admissions to the hospital.
There is such a thing as "standard of care". Why can't insurance companies come up with a standard form? Is that too much to ask?
People are complaining about the cost of health insurance and the cost of healthcare. The media, political pundits and hacks love to blame everything and everybody they can think of without attempting to offer solutions to the problem.
I work in an ER where I get to see people from the top to the bottom of the socioeconomic strata. Believe me, poor people don't have a monopoly on stupidity and poor judgement. I take care of people with and without insurance. I have read through this thread all those examples of people who make bad choices, and those who have sacrificed and made all the right choices. I feel there is a lot of resentment out there towards people who are not too bright, maybe they're lazy, lack self discipline, etc.
At the end of the day, what do you suggest we, as a society, do? They are human beings. Would you prefer to line them up against a wall and shoot them for not conforming to your standards? Talk about socialism! That's what communist China did with their hardcore opium addicts. Would you rather let them die a slow painful death? Force them to negotiate a payment plan with a hospital? Please, if they did not pay for health insurance what makes you think they're going to pay a $15,000 visit to the ER?
I do not believe healthcare should be free because that discourages personal responsibility for your own health. Allow me to explain:
1. Simple handwashing can prevent a lot of illnesses. Do people wash their hands as often as they should? No.
2. Diabetics must follow a special diet, test their blood sugar and take their medication every day. You'd be surprised at the number of non-compliant diabetics that visit an ER each day. Same goes for people with hypertension.
3. People who have any kind of medical condition that requires daily medication should have on their person a paper with their medical history as well as medications (with dosages). Very few people do this. "Call my doctor's office", they say. At 2 o'clock in the morning? On a weekend? What if they have a syncope and can't even say their name, let alone their doctor's name? Totally asanine.
Well, we can suture wounds, give you medications, take out your gallbladder, etc, but like I heard a comedian once say: "You can't fix stupid". So, you have to deal with it.
I think it's a shame that someone who works for a living can't afford to buy health insurance. Having a universal payer would reduce the paperwork and hence costs. Having an ID card with your name, address, etc. would help.
I think everybody should be covered because those who are covered end up paying for those who are not covered. That's what is happening now. Either way, we all pay. Whether it's higher premiums or overcrowded ER's, we all pay.
So everybody should pay something. Call it a tax, I don't care. Doctors and hospitals are going to treat you better because they'll be competing for the same dollars. Each ER visit should have some kind of a co-pay, even if it is 15-20 dollars. That's so people don't abuse the system. Ex: people come in complaining of a headache. "Did you take any tylenol?"..."No", they say. Some older folks call 911 if they haven't had a bowel movement in two days. I'm not making this up. Happens all the time. Maybe, just maybe, if they have to pay a co-pay they might first consider taking tylenol for a headache, of a laxative for constipation.
Prescriptions? Don't get me started. The current medicare prescription plan is a rip off. It's OK for Walmart to buy in bulk, but the government cannot buy in bulk from Walgreens, CVS, etc? I think if you're over 18, you should pay from 5 to 10 dollars for each script. Children whose parents make less than 30,000 could get free meds.
For those on public assistance, adults should have a small co-pay also. If you don't pay the co-pay, it'll be deducted from your "check".
Health awareness should be taught in schools. A lot of patient teaching is needed.
I don't have all the answers, just a few ideas here and there.
Last edited by EDnurse; 10-26-2007 at 11:40 PM..
Reason: typo
The same thing they do now. Treat them anyway. But you'll have a lot less people refusing to pay $20 than $20000. I know that if I were suddenly faced with a 20k bill for medical services, I'd probably have to declare bankruptcy and everyone's costs would go up as a result, but if I were faced with a $20 bill for medical services, I could pull the money out of my back pocket as I sit here typing this. I have $15 dollar co-pays now with my insurance, paying them has never been an issue with me.
The same thing they do now. Treat them anyway. But you'll have a lot less people refusing to pay $20 than $20000. I know that if I were suddenly faced with a 20k bill for medical services, I'd probably have to declare bankruptcy and everyone's costs would go up as a result, but if I were faced with a $20 bill for medical services, I could pull the money out of my back pocket as I sit here typing this. I have $15 dollar co-pays now with my insurance, paying them has never been an issue with me.
So what will this accomplish? Nobody gets presented with a $20,000 bill when they check into the Emergency room. Anyone who receives service is allowed to make minimal monthly payments, even as little as $50/mo. If they aren't willing to pay these minimal payments, they aren't going to be willing to pay $20 on the spot. Also, I doubt that paying $50 or even $100 monthly payments will put anyone into legitimate bankruptcy.
So what will this accomplish? Nobody gets presented with a $20,000 bill when they check into the Emergency room. Anyone who receives service is allowed to make minimal monthly payments, even as little as $50/mo. If they aren't willing to pay these minimal payments, they aren't going to be willing to pay $20 on the spot. Also, I doubt that paying $50 or even $100 monthly payments will put anyone into legitimate bankruptcy.
Oh please. the medical system would collapse if everyone was paying their 100k bills in $50/month increments.
It would also be a lifetime bill (until the person died and their debt was expunged) ESPECIALLY if interest were levied on the payments!
So what will this accomplish? Nobody gets presented with a $20,000 bill when they check into the Emergency room. Anyone who receives service is allowed to make minimal monthly payments, even as little as $50/mo. If they aren't willing to pay these minimal payments, they aren't going to be willing to pay $20 on the spot. Also, I doubt that paying $50 or even $100 monthly payments will put anyone into legitimate bankruptcy.
My first born had to be an emergency C-section. Now before all this I was basicly forced to pay half up front to both doctor and hospital. I didnt have insurance and as a conserv I wasn't about to go for welfare. In the end the Bill was 11 grand.
LOL The hospital set payments at 250.00 per month interest of 21%. Now the hospital did me alot of favors for example in fla they have a catastrophic loss fund for just such situations. This helped to offset such hits. They applied for it even tho I refused it. My son was about 7 before I had him paid off. LOL But for the record had I never paid a dime I would have taken a hit on my credit rating and that would have been my only penalty. I didnt own my own home at the time.
Had I had no money at all I would not have had to pay a dime. The law does not allow you to be denied healthcare regardless of ability to pay.
Oh please. the medical system would collapse if everyone was paying their 100k bills in $50/month increments.
It would also be a lifetime bill (until the person died and their debt was expunged) ESPECIALLY if interest were levied on the payments!
Exactly. If that were the way it really worked, the prudent person wouldn't bother with health insurance at all, and just pay that $25-50 a month for care, as that is cheaper than health insurance.
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