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Wrong, Katiana, I have seen it firsthand. Many colleges added buildings (i.e seats) during the baby bust. Some colleges accept 75% of the applicants.
If Caltechs' failure rate is 1 in 2, they are inept. Or doing it deliberately. The reality is the 1 in 2 rate is not transferring schools; its the percentage who, after SIX years, have a 4 year degree. A very low standard that half fail.
The reality is any business with a 1 in 2 failure rate would be liquidated, and in foolish US college land, its accepted as SOP. That is sick.
The money wasted on the education of those who failed has far more productive uses. perhaps they could have gotten through vocational schools or the like. The sad thing is, when they fail, colleges bottom lines are not impacted negatively.
I stand by what I said: you don't know what you're talking about. They only take 15% of all applicants. You don't know how the statistics were compiled, either. You don't know if these other people went on to get a degree somewhere else. You don't know what it means at all.
I stand by what I said: you don't know what you're talking about. They only take 15% of all applicants. You don't know how the statistics were compiled, either. You don't know if these other people went on to get a degree somewhere else. You don't know what it means at all.
Baloney, katiana, education is a business, and I know people involved in it. 50% graduate in 6 years and this is NOT getting much press. Why? It should be the main focus.
Perhaps if colleges were forced to return some of the money loaned when their failure to graduate rates exceeded acceptable percentages, they would care.
There are many fine universities nationwide, but just like the bad colleges, all are businesses. they all budget projected revenue and expenses, they all measure costs, and they all operate in much the same manner as the widget factory, the retail store, the insurance company.in terms of measuring actual financial results versus projections.
PS, When positions are advertised in their finance departments, the requirements are essentially the same as the widget manufacturers requirements. That is because both are businesses. And I've seen fine universities advertise such positions, with emphasis on budget modeling and variance analysis-just like the widget factory.
I would say at Caltech, zero were in remedial classes. Zero. I doubt if they even offer them. I don't know the answers to the other questions, and I don't know if it matters. Do you have any idea what kind of a school Caltech is? I guess I have the answer to that question if you ask about remedial classes.
Sure it's nationwide. I'm showing that at two very different schools, in different parts of the country, it was the same back in the 60s.
Why are you focusing on a single college ?
I could use MIT as an example but that is an exception, not the norm to 4 year universities across the US.
The ones most likely to drop out are not applying to and attending these schools.
I stand by what I said: you don't know what you're talking about. They only take 15% of all applicants. You don't know how the statistics were compiled, either. You don't know if these other people went on to get a degree somewhere else. You don't know what it means at all.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
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Something else to take into consideration when it comes to admissions and figuring out the admissions percentages. These figures are really skewed so that more colleges can look like their "selective". That way their ranking go up in US World and News Reports annual ranking of schools. You also have to remember that the number of schools kids apply to today is staggering. It used to be that a kid applied to one or perhaps two. Seven applications is more the norm these days and I know of one mom who's son applied to 12. Twelve schools.. nuts when you think how much they paid just in app fees!
What we should be ranking our schools on is their graduation rate and how many of those graduates actually get a job in their chosen field after graduation, especially if it is a degree that isn't designed to be a precursor to further education. To me, at least, that would tell you which schools are actually doing the job for which they were designed. Shouldn't the funding and even the lending be given to those schools, no matter what tier they are, that are doing the best for the students? A small local college could be of a lot more "value" than big-name brand university 1/2 way across the country.. Because along with all the debt these kids are left with, they are also being pushed and pushed into going for the name brand. And we all know... name brands ain't cheap!
^^In researching college graduation rates, it's hard to find much that tells you anything on google. Most articles talk about the total number of college graduates in the US, which is about 30% of all adults over 25. There is another 25% or so who have not graduated from high school.
I think most colleges have statistics on how many students matriculate with them, and then do not graduate from that college. That doesn't mean they didn't graduate from somewhere. My own younger daughter is lost in those stats, b/c she transferrred. She's currently in grad school.
As far as jobs in one's chosen field, how do you determine that in all cases? Nursing, teaching, engineering and accounting are a few fields where you can graduate and get an entry-level job in those fields, but a lot of other degrees are not like that. Is a physics graduate a failure is s/he works in engineering instead? What about students who go on to grad school?
Ironically, nursing students have one of the highest rates of student loan defaults. (I know they can't be discharged in bankruptcy.) I read this in a nursing journal, you'll have to take my word for it b/c I can't find it on google. This was a few years ago that I read this, maybe even five years ago, before the recession, so it's not b/c there weren't nursing jobs available. My take on it is that there are a lot of private nursing schools out there who are gaming the govt. with these loans. You can get as good, probably better actually, education at a CC for an AAS, or a regular non-profit college for a BSN.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-26-2012 at 02:12 PM..
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
^^In researching college graduation rates, it's hard to find much that tells you anything on google. Most articles talk about the total number of college graduates in the US, which is about 30% of all adults over 25. There is another 25% or so who have not graduated from high school.
I think most colleges have statistics on how many students matriculate with them, and then do not graduate from that college. That doesn't mean they don't graduated from somewhere. My own younger daughter is lost in those stats, b/c she transferrred. She's currently in grad school.
As far as jobs in one's chosen field, how do you determine that in all cases? Nursing, teaching, engineering and accounting are a few fields where you can graduate and get an entry-level job in those fields, but a lot of other degrees are not like that. Is a physics graduate a failure is s/he works in engineering instead? What about students who go on to grad school?
Ironically, nursing students have one of the highest rates of student loan defaults. (I know they can't be discharged in bankruptcy.) I read this in a nursing journal, you'll have to take my word for it b/c I can't find it on google. This was a few years ago that I read this, maybe even five years ago, before the recession, so it's not b/c there weren't nursing jobs available. My take on it is that there are a lot of private nursing schools out there who are gaming the govt. with these loans. You can get as good, probably better actually, education at a CC for an AAS, or a regular non-profit college for a BSN.
If your lucky you can find transfer information usually on the CDS. But most of the time findings those sets takes a lot of searching. The main webpages usually don't link to them, you have to search them out...
There has to be some common sense applied here to.. But if only say 50% of all graduates with an accounting degree are working in accounting from a particular institution, wouldn't that logically tell you there has to be a reason. Now what that root cause might be, could be any number of things, but I'd sure as heck, as a paying student or parent want to know...
I'd be curious to know in your case Kat... take medical transcription for one. I've heard that taking a medical transcription course from a community college doesn't mean as much as a couple of specific transcription schools... and that some of those schools grant certificates not associates. And a few transcription schools aren't worth the paper the ads for them are printed on. So in this case, if true... paying even for a community college is less helpful than other training. True or False?
So who are we going to pay to do all this research?
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