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Not under current national circumstances but every nation and society goes through cycles. The western world is abandoning religion as a result of material prosperity. Other parts of the world that are much less wealthy are still very religious. A return to being a Christian nation is much more likely if we have an economic disaster of such magnitude that we see mass starvation and riots. When people don't know where their next meal will come from or even if they will get it, they tend to be more open to religion.
The chance of there being "mass" starvation in the western world is slim to none in todays day and age. Cycles also get broken as society moves forward and matures. As the rest of the world moves forward even they will begin to lost religion.
The chance of there being "mass" starvation in the western world is slim to none in todays day and age. Cycles also get broken as society moves forward and matures. As the rest of the world moves forward even they will begin to lost religion.
First, mass starvation IS possible if the peak oil alarmists are correct. Thats not to say they are but if they are right, within the next 10-20 years we could be looking at a complete societal collapse straight from a Mad Max movie. They have been warning us since the '60s though so the verdict really is still out.
Secondly, Western civilization isn't immune to the ails that brought down Greece and Rome. No society is invincible and no civilization lasts forever. Its possible that we are on the cusp of a new dark age, especially if peak oil is true. The result of a collapse of western civilization, after all the death and destruction, would be a much simpler society in which religion would play a greater role.
Finally, I doubt the third-world will become irreligious in our lifetimes regardless of what happens to Western civilization. The eastern mind and the western mind perceive the world very differently.
Christ in the Bible doesn't tell us to be involved in lots of things. Where in the Bible does Christ tell us to be involved in, say, building a house or growing tomotoes? Repairing computers, or installing solar panels? It's not there either. But we do these things, and more, and often find them obligatory.
Those are just necessary parts of living and not the same thing.
UNLESS God TOLD you to build a house, repair a computer etc. In that case, it would be the will of God for you do so.
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Men are to take the Gospel with them wherever men happen to go, doing whatever they are obliged to be doing. Men are naturally involved in business, government, entertainment, and public life in general. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to flee from public life. While government has responsibilities that are distinct from that of the Church, Christians in government - and Christians who are capable of influencing government (e.g., voters and activists) - have an obligation to allow Christian truth to illuminate their work.
Yes, we should take our faith with us everywhere we go, but that's a far cry from compelling people to live under Christ who don't want to.
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"Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven. But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven." - Mt. 10:32-33
That verse is speaking specifically of salvation and it would be wrong to try and apply it to something else.
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The founding fathers (apart from conflicted and inconsistent Jacobins like Jefferson and Paine) did not exalt the self, collective or individual, over the common good. Their belief was that a constitutional republic best achieved the common good, not self-actualization or whatever. In the Christian view individual liberty is a by-product of the common good, not the source of it.
They believed the common good could best be served by the collective serving of individuals. That's why we only have one nationally elected office: The Presidency. All others are state elections. The system was created not to serve the larger good, but to empower individuals to express their will, thereby ensuring the larger good is achieved by a majority of individual goods.
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Government is not "alien to Scripture". Romans 13, etc. Didn't you just quote these to me?
Let me re-phrase that: THIS government is alien to scripture. That does not mean, however, that it crafted against the will of God. If anything in this universe happens without either Him directing it or allowing it, He's not the God he claims to be. Even evil governments, even governments alien to scripture, are allowed by God to achieve His purpose. For instance, do you believe Nazi Germany existed outside the will of God?
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Reforming something alien to Scripture, to bring it in conformity with the will of God, is working against the will of God? This doesn't make any sense. What am I missing?
If a government alien to scripture exists, it must be there for a reason only God knows so...yes, resisting that government is resisting the will of God.
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Honestly, that just sounds crazy, an extreme form of quietism. Was St. John the Baptist wrong to rebuke Herod for living in adultery? And besides, there are Christians in our government, including the President himself (if we take him at his word).
John was not wrong to rebuke Herod. But, he also did not attempt to overthrow him, did he?
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But if you were providing them with explosives for, say, a mining operation so they could have work and support themselves, but they were using those explosives instead to make war on their neighbors, then you would be obliged to stop providing those explosives. Correct?
Incorrect. If God told me to give them explosives, who am I to judge what He intends to accomplish by that? I can do no more than He tells me to do.
But, we're getting into minutiae and losing track of the larger issue, so let me attempt to boil it down, if I may.
You believe this nation is seriously off-track and I would not disagree with you. Where we disagree, though, is the solution. Along with many of our fellow believers, you seem to think the problem is political and the solution must therefore be found in the political arena. A change of government, a change of laws, even a change of administrations is needed to correct our errant behaviors. More Christian's in government, more Christian laws, or even a Christian government must result in a more Christian nation.
That's not only a false idea, I think it's one the very false teachings Paul warned Timothy to look for in the latter days when people will have a form of Godliness, but deny the power thereof. (II Tim 3:5) For, you see, all those things you mentioned, such as abortions etc, are the law of the land because our people want that. The government reflects the will of the people, so the problem must be the people...right? And, if that's so, which people and why?
The real problem isn't the government. It's not even temporal. It's a SPIRITUAL problem which resides in the human heart, the hearts found in The People. Therefore, a SPIRITUAL solution is called for, not a temporal one. The solution is to take the Gospel to a lost and dying world and allowing the Holy Spirit to affect real change in the lives of our people, which will affect changes in our government, not the other way around. To assume anything else will work is to deny the power of the Spirit.
Moreover, God Himself told us in scripture how to heal a nation, and it's not by packing government with believers or instituting a Christian government. Not only that, but by revealing the solution, He also revealed what's wrong with this country, or any country and guess what? It's not sinners who are causing our problems. It is THE CHURCH, the body of believers who are at fault and who are at the root of what ails us.
II Chron 7:14, one of the most quoted scriptures these days and one of the least understood. THERE is your solution. THERE is how to fix what's wrong.
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
Notice the first three words: If MY PEOPLE..... And, just who is MY PEOPLE? Since that verse comes from the Old Testament, it meant the Israelites. However, we're now under the New Covenant and MY PEOPLE are US..the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST!. It isn't government which needs to humble itself, pray, seek His face and turn from it's wicked ways! It isn't even the lost! It's US. WE, the body of believers, have gone astray! WE are the root of the problem, not anybody else.
So, if you really would like to see this nation rescued from it's peril, then YOU and I and EVERY OTHER believer must humble ourselves, pray, seek His face and turn from our wicked ways. Then...and ONLY then, will He heal our land.
You can create Christian governments all day long, you can pass Christian laws until the cows come home, elect all the Christian's you like and nothing will change. Nothing at all will chage because you're dealing with the symptoms, not the disease.
The disease which is killing us is the cancer of Godlessness found inside the Christian church.
First, mass starvation IS possible if the peak oil alarmists are correct. Thats not to say they are but if they are right, within the next 10-20 years we could be looking at a complete societal collapse straight from a Mad Max movie. They have been warning us since the '60s though so the verdict really is still out.
Secondly, Western civilization isn't immune to the ails that brought down Greece and Rome. No society is invincible and no civilization lasts forever. Its possible that we are on the cusp of a new dark age, especially if peak oil is true. The result of a collapse of western civilization, after all the death and destruction, would be a much simpler society in which religion would play a greater role.
Finally, I doubt the third-world will become irreligious in our lifetimes regardless of what happens to Western civilization. The eastern mind and the western mind perceive the world very differently.
First off most geologists will tell you that we probably have more than 20 years before the oil supply runs out. And once you add in shale, oil sands, and other natural gases it lasts for another 80 years. Second you can actually fuel you car with many other things besides gas. So it would not be hard to get around even if that did happen. The fact is we already have the tech to survive without it, but it won't be pushed into mainstream implementation until oil is near done with. And rome fell due to a lot of issues, the main of which being conflicts from within simply drained the society of resources. Rome never really recovered from the 3rd century crisis, and just happened to limp on due to no major enemies assaulting it for the next 100 years. Once that happened it fell within a short period of time. And yes within 100 years the east will match the west once they get a taste of western lifestyles the desire for religion will vanish like here.
Not under current national circumstances but every nation and society goes through cycles. The western world is abandoning religion as a result of material prosperity. Other parts of the world that are much less wealthy are still very religious. A return to being a Christian nation is much more likely if we have an economic disaster of such magnitude that we see mass starvation and riots. When people don't know where their next meal will come from or even if they will get it, they tend to be more open to religion.
It is impossible to return to what you never were.
1. Any society needs a set of common values and beliefs to function well - a social consensus. There may exist legitimate diversity within certain limits, and a degree of tolerance outside those limits, but ....... there must be limits.
2. It is important that those values and beliefs be rooted in truth. A society based on false beliefs about God and man leads to tyranny.
3. Politics is, at minimum, about carefully ensuring that the state does not impose a false worldview on its citizens, and about creating an environment for the truth to flourish.
4. The United States has lost the social consensus it once had - a consensus that was unique in the world for its breadth and tolerance while at the same time committed to principles rooted in the Western Christian tradition. Large segments of the population now see our former consensus as narrow, bigoted, repressive, and even "theocratic".
5. The present situation is not sustainable. If our society continues to fracture in this way, then our politics will descend into greater tyranny and possibly even civil war.
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The only workable solution is a return to an explicit Christian state. The experiment whereby the government pretends "neutrality" is too easily exploited by secularists and the enemies of the Christian faith. The doctrine of religious pluralism is, paradoxically, a cleverly wielded tool of secularization.
I don't know whether this is possible for the entire country, or only for certain regions of the country, but t is essential in some form to the survival of anything resembling what once was America and the English-speaking Christian West.
Naturally some will ask "Which version of Christianity"? Catholicism? Presbyterianism? Methodism? Et al? In the first place, the federal government doesn't need to require belief from anybody but its civil servants, and this belief need only be expressed as a promise to respect and not to subvert the Christian faith and morality of the people.
Insofar as the federal government assists private institutions, schools and charities - and these, rather than the government, should provide the bulk of social services in the country - preference should be given to those which profess the Nicene Creed in the context of historically mainstream Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) and traditional expressions of morality.
Where has this ever worked? It worked relatively well all over the world until the mid-20th century. Canada, and especially the province of Quebec, was once a shining example of this kind of system, though it is now in the process of rejecting its past and enforcing a tyrannical secularism. There are still a few nations left today that have retained the concept - the Philippines, Malta, Lichtenstein - hardly repressive "theocracies" despite the squeals of secularists.
You're right... if not for "peace loving" Church of England, the USA might not have existed.
There were rules and morals LONG before the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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