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Old 03-10-2012, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,597 posts, read 13,880,629 times
Reputation: 15607

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The problem in Syria got me thinking.

Quote:
"A little rebellion now and then is a good thing. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government. God forbid that we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion."

Thomas Jefferson, letter to statesman (later president) James Madison (Jan. 30, 1787)
But there you go, even our third President thought a rebellion every 20 years would be a good thing. Today Thomas Jefferson would be arrested by Homeland Security and sent to Gitmo.

It needs to be recognized as well without a large segment of the American people supporting such a thing it would never be successful. Not in this country anyway. A large segment wouldn't have to me a majority because with a majority all you need is an honest election but with that said I would think 20% would present a very serious problem.

But two threads Gun sales boom in expectation of Obama re-election and Secret militias on the rise in U.S. got me wondering what would it take to be a serious threat to our government?

We've had some Timothy McVeigh's but what would happen if instead of one or two Timothy McVeigh's there were 10,000 of them? What if there were 100,000 or even a million?

We will never see an 1861 civil war but I would think 100,000 Timothy McVeigh's could make the country nearly ungovernable outside the largest cities.

Before I get accused of all sorts of BS let me say Timothy McVeigh was no hero, he was a cowardly little murderer, but I am just using him as an example. We could just as well be talking about Obama's good friend Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground.

The weather underground had this country in an uproar and they had what, a couple dozen hard core members?

Take the IRS for example. 100 or even 1,000 taxpayers couldn't fight the IRS, they would all end up in prison, but 20 million taxpayers could make the IRS unable to function. What it comes down to is they can't put everyone in jail.... they can't even put half of us in jail.

I use the term "militia" loosely not meaning some sort of modern military structure but instead imagine a loose group of people who wanted to cause real problems. So at what point could one of these "militias" start posing a real problem if they wanted to?

But to put your mind at ease I would think most of these militia units are not unlike the modern KKK where every other member is an FBI informant.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:01 PM
 
70 posts, read 42,236 times
Reputation: 28
It would take a lot more than some little man blowing smoke on the internet.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:15 PM
 
29,740 posts, read 37,442,335 times
Reputation: 4723
$3,000,000.

Of course if the press actually did their jobs it would take trillions of dollars.

As it is, the people are so willing to grasp onto the first person, and story, they see they'll literally fall for anything.

That opens them up to all of the same shortfalls that the socialist regimes of Hitler, Stalin and Lenin used to subdue the genral public and make them compliant.

Quote:
My idea is that every specific body strives to become master over all space and to extend its force (--its will to power; ) and to thrust back all that resists its extension. But it continually encounters similar efforts on the part of other bodies and ends by coming to an arrangement ("union") with those of them that are sufficiently related to it: thus they then conspire together for power. And the process goes on--
from The Will to Power, s.636, Walter Kaufmann transl
Nietzsche Quotes: Will to Power
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:27 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 9,803,582 times
Reputation: 3082
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
The problem in Syria got me thinking.
So are you volunteering your neighborhood to be the American Baba Amr? If not then you should probably reconsider.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,074 posts, read 2,005,310 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
$3,000,000.

Of course if the press actually did their jobs it would take trillions of dollars.

As it is, the people are so willing to grasp onto the first person, and story, they see they'll literally fall for anything.

That opens them up to all of the same shortfalls that the socialist regimes of Hitler, Stalin and Lenin used to subdue the genral public and make them compliant.

Nietzsche Quotes: Will to Power
It would take a hell of a lot more idiots than we currently have on tap in this
country at the moment. Paramilitary groups seem to be on the decline this
decade.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Ohio
23,191 posts, read 16,909,206 times
Reputation: 19818
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
But two threads Gun sales boom in expectation of Obama re-election and Secret militias on the rise in U.S. got me wondering what would it take to be a serious threat to our government?
Seriously? About 40 people.

Tactically....

Mircea
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:52 PM
 
29,740 posts, read 37,442,335 times
Reputation: 4723
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
It would take a hell of a lot more idiots than we currently have on tap in this
country at the moment. Paramilitary groups seem to be on the decline this
decade.
Not likely. I could incite a riot with a few million dollars, that would bring down this country in a hail of fiery atoms with the absolutely toxic environment we currently have.
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,795 posts, read 11,031,087 times
Reputation: 9718
Syria? Really? Syria is like what the fifth middle east dictatorship to melt down... but, ok, have it your way, Syria it is. Dude, you have to know that they have bots that crawl the Web and look for text strings with seditious references and log the ip numbers. I'm not going to participate in this thread for that very reason. Don't say I didn't warn you when you go to the supermarket and your credit card doesn't work.
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:23 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,883 posts, read 42,468,057 times
Reputation: 18467
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
The problem in Syria got me thinking.



But there you go, even our third President thought a rebellion every 20 years would be a good thing. Today Thomas Jefferson would be arrested by Homeland Security and sent to Gitmo.

It needs to be recognized as well without a large segment of the American people supporting such a thing it would never be successful. Not in this country anyway. A large segment wouldn't have to me a majority because with a majority all you need is an honest election but with that said I would think 20% would present a very serious problem.

But two threads Gun sales boom in expectation of Obama re-election and Secret militias on the rise in U.S. got me wondering what would it take to be a serious threat to our government?

We've had some Timothy McVeigh's but what would happen if instead of one or two Timothy McVeigh's there were 10,000 of them? What if there were 100,000 or even a million?

We will never see an 1861 civil war but I would think 100,000 Timothy McVeigh's could make the country nearly ungovernable outside the largest cities.

Before I get accused of all sorts of BS let me say Timothy McVeigh was no hero, he was a cowardly little murderer, but I am just using him as an example. We could just as well be talking about Obama's good friend Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground.

The weather underground had this country in an uproar and they had what, a couple dozen hard core members?

Take the IRS for example. 100 or even 1,000 taxpayers couldn't fight the IRS, they would all end up in prison, but 20 million taxpayers could make the IRS unable to function. What it comes down to is they can't put everyone in jail.... they can't even put half of us in jail.

I use the term "militia" loosely not meaning some sort of modern military structure but instead imagine a loose group of people who wanted to cause real problems. So at what point could one of these "militias" start posing a real problem if they wanted to?

But to put your mind at ease I would think most of these militia units are not unlike the modern KKK where every other member is an FBI informant.




About 2 dozen well trained and well organized personnel.
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 16,097,608 times
Reputation: 7975
The American Revolution had an intellectual basis, namely replacing monarchy with democracy and liberty, derived from the ideas of John Locke, Adam Smith, etc.

The idea was that democracy would bring us liberty, but unfortunately it has not really worked out that way. The colonists had more liberty under King George than we have now.

Two-hundred thirty-six years later we don't really have a new intellectual basis for revolution. Replace the existing order with what? So the answer to the question is 'one.' It would take one scribbler to provide a convincing new basis before any revolution is going to happen.
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