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Old 03-14-2012, 08:46 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,155,997 times
Reputation: 5941

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
What's wrong with being proud to be a woman or a man? I love being a woman! I love dressing up and wearing dresses and looking nice. I also love watching football and screaming at the TV. I love that I got to have a baby. I love being a woman. And I love that I'm with someone who loves being a man. What's the problem?
Why would you be "proud" to be a man or woman....it's not an accomplishment...you're just born that way?????

 
Old 03-14-2012, 08:48 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,076,059 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I'd like to see a society that lets you be whatever gender you want to be. If that's ultra-feminine and you have a vagina, great. If that's androgynous or masculine or even ultra-masculine and you have a vagina, great. Etc. Society today still does a lot of "gender policing" and I'd like to see that diminish overtime. Some women want to be girly and some men want to be guyish and that's all well and good, but I do think there needs to be more acceptance for women that want to be guyish and men that want to be girly and people that just want to be both or either or don't want to think in terms of whether how they're being is girly/guyish.

I'd love to see a society that is more race-blind too. I'd love to see a society that is disability-blind. It would be great if people could just look at me and see a person, and not "a blind person." I identify so strongly with my blindness mainly because so many other people can't see past it (lol no pun intended) so I am constantly reminded of it. Barely an hour goes by without someone reminding me that I'm blind in a sighted world.

I'd just like to see people seeing others for themselves, and not their skin color or sex or gender beyond what the person themselves expresses or projects. If someone acts very girly, for instance, because they want people to see them that way, and that's just who they are that's one thing. But I'd like to see the ideas and expectations like "you're a woman, act girly" go away. I'd like to see people treat someone girly cause that that person identifies as girly, not because she has a vagina. Same goes for guys of course.

It should be up to individuals to choose and express their gender identity, not up to other people to police them into a specific gender role based on their genitalia. Same goes for cultural identity based on skin color.
Do you find that people sometimes act TOO nice to because they're afraid they might offend you? I'm sure that must annoy many disabled people who want people to just treat them like any other.

I agree...it is society, not the law, which does most of these 'gender policing.' Which is why feminists shouldn't focus so much on things like the supposed pay gap, but about changing the attitudes of people, or at least making them be more understanding of people who do not fit the roles prescribed by a rigid dichotomy.

While outright racism is declining and is being condemned, I think society is definitely not 'race-blind' yet either. As a 'minority' it is something I experience every day, and am sometimes more aware of it than at other times. I don't have too many complaints, but every now and then you are reminded that you are different. They should just be like water off a duck's back but it's easy enough to say it when you're not on the receiving end of it.

I do think a lot of people do act that way because they're pressured to, as much as that's how they naturally are. If a man wants to express his flamboyant, affectionate side, he must face possible ridicule or even abuse. Likewise if a woman tries to act 'tough' the invariable stereotypes come into play. What people don't often realise is sometimes what is intended as a 'positive' comment can actually serve to do the opposite, and further differentiate that person from the 'norm.'

From a young age I've always questioned these rigid gender roles. I was a fairly conventional child - most of my friend's were boys, I did 'boy' things like play basketball or play violent video games, but I was always sensitive, and found the whole 'girl germs' or cootie thing in the playground silly. Maybe it's part of growing up, maybe it's ignorance, I never viewed it as very important in the grand scheme of things.
 
Old 03-14-2012, 09:11 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,155,997 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERCHIC View Post
i dress and act like a women
How does a woman "act"?


Smart

Dumb

Frivolous

Serious

Weak

Strong

Intelligent

Stupid

Sweet

Hard-nosed

Physically strong

Physically weak


Thrifty

Kind

Cruel

Bold

Shy

Talkative

Quiet

Happy

Sad

Hard-working

Lazy

Competent

Incompetent

Independent

Dependent

Responsible

Irresponsible

?????????????


Just which attributes do women own?

Which ones do men own?


Which ones do individual HUMAN BEINGS own?
 
Old 03-14-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,084,813 times
Reputation: 3937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I notice some people, women in particular, make a big thing out of being a woman. Yes, I DO realise men are largely responsible for this, nor am I saying it's a bad thing...but it's like they strongly identify as a woman, rather than just as a person. Like they'll always say things like 'I did pretty good for a woman,' 'I'm a spunky girl,' 'girls should do this, or that'...always raising their gender as a reason to do something, or not to do something.

The opposite would be a guy who is afraid to do anything 'girly', who tends to play up his masculinity, his role as a 'man.'

People who tend to only have friends of their own sex, with stereotypical male or female interests would likely be more gender 'typical' or conscious.

Sometimes I feel kind of genderless. Being male feels 'right' to me - definitely not a transsexual, the idea of actually being a woman would seem weird, but I can imagine it. More it's all the societal pressures that women have to face. But a lot of the time I see myself as just a person, and when I relate to women it's seldom in a gender-conscious way. Sometimes I feel almost self-conscious to even raise gender, although it's probably because I'm shy. I guess having some a friend who is trans, and knowing some ***** people, or otherwise nerdy/non-mainstream people also has an affect on it.

But yes, some people are always saying things like 'guys will do this, or girls are like that' - it's like they make a big deal of gender. I would call such people very gender-conscious people, who see the differences more than the similarities.

Not bashing those who do...I know the genders are different, but generally I only raise points of differences when absolutely necessary.
Well...I stand up to urinate and I wear a size 13 boot,so my feet are to long to get close enough to the sink to do dishes
 
Old 03-14-2012, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Toronto
3,295 posts, read 7,018,557 times
Reputation: 2425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I agree...it is society, not the law, which does most of these 'gender policing.' Which is why feminists shouldn't focus so much on things like the supposed pay gap, but about changing the attitudes of people, or at least making them be more understanding of people who do not fit the roles prescribed by a rigid dichotomy.
Yes, that's in part the origin of the famous feminist slogan "The personal is the political." Can't remember if it was from the '60s or something.

Though, "The personal is the political" has been used in contexts outside its original feminist context too, and that also makes sense.
 
Old 03-14-2012, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Armsanta Sorad
5,648 posts, read 8,059,397 times
Reputation: 2462
Being a male, I can only identify with other men, therefore I have male friends only. I dress and act like a human being.
 
Old 03-14-2012, 01:50 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,155,997 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by West of Encino View Post
Being a male, I can only identify with other men, therefore I have male friends only. I dress and act like a human being.
Hang onto your hat, pard! I got a shocker for ya...


Women are human beings, too!
 
Old 03-14-2012, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 995,695 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113 View Post
You've made all the good points in this thread, I've tried to rep you more but I gotta spread it around.

The fact of the matter is though is that people care too much about what others are doing with their lives and this is something I'll never understand. As long as that person's actions doesn't effect anyone else; I don't see why anyone should care about anyone elses lifestyle.
And yet you repped a post for doing exactly that!
 
Old 03-14-2012, 02:00 PM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
10,190 posts, read 7,957,451 times
Reputation: 8114
I am a man who loves beautiful women. Oh yeah!
 
Old 03-14-2012, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 995,695 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I notice some people, women in particular, make a big thing out of being a woman. Yes, I DO realise men are largely responsible for this, nor am I saying it's a bad thing...but it's like they strongly identify as a woman, rather than just as a person. Like they'll always say things like 'I did pretty good for a woman,' 'I'm a spunky girl,' 'girls should do this, or that'...always raising their gender as a reason to do something, or not to do something.
There's really SOOO much in this post that I don't know where to begin, but this seems the logical spot. LOL! I think this thread is hysterical! Especially considering it was started by a man! And you're focusing on what women do/say about themselves. ROFL!

As a woman myself (should be pretty obvious from my handle, but ya never know), I talk about being a woman a lot. That's cuz that's what I am... a woman. I talk about what I have experience with, and that's being a woman mostly.. I've had over 40 years experience with that. I can talk about being a mom too, which is the second most expierience I have (18 + years). But that's also being a woman, so it kinda goes hand in hand.

That being said I seldom say things like "I did pretty good for a woman" unless the situation warrants it. I.E. "I just drove a big rig accross the country, I did pretty good for a woman". Although even then I probably wouldn't say something like that, because there's very few things I feel a man can do that a woman can't.... maybe peeing standing up?? Yes, that would be a good situation for saying something like that. Now I might use the sentence "I did pretty good for a SMALL woman" or " I did pretty good for an old woman" (sarcastically of course) in many different situations because I am small and compared to my teenagers I am old. LOL!

Now sentences like "I'm a spunky girl" I say all the time. I say I'm a bubbly girl, a cutsie girl, I'm not a froofy girlie girl, but I am a fun girl. LOL! But no matter what other adjective I use, I will always be a girl (even when I"m 120 years old, I will consider myself to be a girl, that's just me).

As for women saying that girls/women should do this or shouldn't do that, well there are LOTS of reasons for those things. Mostly because there is a REASON why we are considered the "fairer sex". Because a man generally can hurt us much more easily than we can hurt a man. So for safety reasons we have a whole different mindset as to how to look at the world and deal with it.

It's funny, there are things that my boyfriend would never even think about, but when I bring it up as something I would be concerned with, it kinda takes him back because he would never think of it the way I do. He's not a woman, so he couldn't and really never would need to think of his safety in the same way I do.

Differences are a good thing! I really hate the whole gender neutral crap. I EARNED being a woman! I've lived 40 years as a woman, working my ass off to be who I am, having two children (which for me wasn't easy), living through decades of crappy reproductive issues, learning to navigate my changing body as an awkward teen... hell I've EARNED being called a woman! LOL! I'll be damned if I let gender senstivity take that away from me.

Quote:

People who tend to only have friends of their own sex, with stereotypical male or female interests would likely be more gender 'typical' or conscious.
I disagree... at least as far as women go. I think the more gender conscious or typical woman would have more male friends than female ones. Women don't really like each other. LOL! I have a handful of women that I would consider close friends, and we don't hang out much, mostly because life circumstances. The rest of the women I know or would consider "friends" I don't really surround myself with them. Although I don't know how typical I am, but I am very gender conscious. I just have always prefered the stability of male friendships. *shrug*

Quote:
Sometimes I feel almost self-conscious to even raise gender, although it's probably because I'm shy. I guess having some a friend who is trans, and knowing some ***** people, or otherwise nerdy/non-mainstream people also has an affect on it.
How does gender come up? How do you "raise gender" in any conversation? The way you're saying it here sounds a little creepy, but it all depends on delivery.

[gender]But yes, some people are always saying things like 'guys will do this, or girls are like that' - it's like they make a big deal of gender. I would call such people very gender-conscious people, who see the differences more than the similarities.[/quote]

Because the differences are the best parts of our humanity! We're all alike in so many ways... it's BORING to be the same! Why would anyone want to cut that out? Why would you NOT want to focus on the wonderful differences between the sexes?? And it's not that I see the differences more than the similarities, but I feel that the differences make us special... It's all the differences that are what are beautiful about people!
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