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Then wrap your head around the fact that millions of those students don't have a snowball's chance in hell of paying their debt.
Then perhaps they chose the wrong major... my problem, how?
In other words, those with money handed out way too many loans to people under a false paradigm - i.e., that students could take on ever-increasing debt to pay for ever-increasing tuition costs, which would allow those students to them get high-paying jobs down the road from which to pay back their debt. Only problem is that you have to make the investment far in advance, and now it turns out that those jobs no longer exist in the quantities that they used to. So how exactly do you want people to boot-strap their way out of this?
Really simple... save for your kids in advance. Not rocket science, and one of the great wonders of the world is compound interest. School debt is for those that are ill-prepared, or parents that just don't have the ability or care. Not my problem.
It can't happen because, as I said, the entire mechanism under which the debt was arranged in the first place was based on a false paradigm.
'splain to me Lucy, that when the nephew got out of school (in Biotech) started at a salary of $120K. Not too shabby. (and had zero debt). People need to plan ahead.
For myself, I started saving $100/week for schooling a child when I got out of college (a long time ago). Might seem strange, since I have no kids, but now I can send the gf's daughter to any college in the US, for cash.
7 P's: PPPPPPP (Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents P*ss Poor Performance.) This is not an IQ test.
The problem I have with forgiveness (and I have student loans myself) is that forgiving the loans is not going to fix the problem. I'd bet money that if the loans were forgiven in full tomorrow, in ten years the cost of college will be even worse, and there will be another bailout bill for students. The problem won't go away with that method.
I say make the things bankruptable. End of story. If a student is truly destitute and doesn't see another way out, then they could go get a bankruptcy lawyer, deal with the possibility of a trustee selling their assets, pass the means test, and stand in court and pretty much admit they failed financially. And then they would have to deal with the 10 years bad credit, not being able to to be bonded, and not being able to work in finance or get a security clearance. But you won't have to read horror tales of people with endless loans that compound like crazy and of which the former student cannot walk away from.
The other side of bankruptcy is that lenders will get pickier about who gets a loan and they won't lend as much. If colleges cannot get anyone to pay $20K for a year's worth of school, well, then, guess what? They will lower their costs.
The reason college costs what it does is because everybody goes and because one only has to be able to fog a mirror and be enrolled in school to get a loan.
What bothers me to no end is the attitude of many in this thread. It seems all anyone is willing to do is either forgive the loans in full or tell people "you made your bed now go lay in it." Disgusting, both sides. And both are really good examples of why this country is in the sorry shape its in. For starters, we are broke (allegedly) as a country. Secondly, this country is not the way it was in 1975, and I'm tired of my parents generation pretending it is the same way and that their children are useless slackers who party all the time.
Then wrap your head around the fact that millions of those students don't have a snowball's chance in hell of paying their debt.
Then perhaps they chose the wrong major... my problem, how?
Simple, if the American pay rates aren't keeping up with inflation rates then it means Americans are being swept under the rug. Seeing that you A) Didn't start your own business B) Didn't choose which social environment you were born into and C) Don't even work half of the time I see it as quite arrogant that your defending the actions of some of governmental systems. The vast majority of Americans recognize that there is a major problem.
In other words, those with money handed out way too many loans to people under a false paradigm - i.e., that students could take on ever-increasing debt to pay for ever-increasing tuition costs, which would allow those students to them get high-paying jobs down the road from which to pay back their debt. Only problem is that you have to make the investment far in advance, and now it turns out that those jobs no longer exist in the quantities that they used to. So how exactly do you want people to boot-strap their way out of this?
Really simple... save for your kids in advance. Not rocket science, and one of the great wonders of the world is compound interest. School debt is for those that are ill-prepared, or parents that just don't have the ability or care. Not my problem.
Nothing's your problem in your fantasy world. But unless you can live without the help of other human beings I suggest you change your attitude. The fact of the matter is that many parents can save enough money to pay their kid's way through school these days. Do you believe some Americans should work 2 and 3 jobs to barely have enough to stay out of debt while you sit at home and complain all day on city-data just because you got in on a good business opportunity? Please.
It can't happen because, as I said, the entire mechanism under which the debt was arranged in the first place was based on a false paradigm.
'splain to me Lucy, that when the nephew got out of school (in Biotech) started at a salary of $120K. Not too shabby. (and had zero debt). People need to plan ahead.
Your nephew isn't the majority of Americans. You clearly seem to be out of touch. I say this being lucky enough to not have student loans do to academics and athletics.
For myself, I started saving $100/week for schooling a child when I got out of college (a long time ago). Might seem strange, since I have no kids, but now I can send the gf's daughter to any college in the US, for cash.
7 P's: PPPPPPP (Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents P*ss Poor Performance.) This is not an IQ test.
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 Then wrap your head around the fact that millions of those students don't have a snowball's chance in hell of paying their debt.
Then perhaps they chose the wrong major... my problem, how?
Simple, if the American pay rates aren't keeping up with inflation rates then it means Americans are being swept under the rug. Seeing that you A) Didn't start your own business B) Didn't choose which social environment you were born into and C) Don't even work half of the time I see it as quite arrogant that your defending the actions of some of governmental systems. The vast majority of Americans recognize that there is a major problem.
"I am not my brother's keeper"
I agree, they have not. Since I graduated from college, the cost of tuition went up 10-fold, and the salaries only went up 6-fold. But the magic of compound interest works wonders.
A).Don't know where 'starting your own business' comes from, but having worked with VC's that know WAY more than I do about raising capital ($2B), and hiring technology experts, that landed an Aston Martin in the garage (and a few other pretties). Who cares if someone started a business or not? I sure don't. The skill is turning it from a fledgling in a major workhorse.
B). I, like you, had no choice in what social environment we were born into. Go play Mega-Millions is that makes you feel better.
C). I don't work at all (for pay). I prefer to donate my time, energy and resources into helping others. Something you may want to consider, rather than trashing those who do.
In other words, those with money handed out way too many loans to people under a false paradigm - i.e., that students could take on ever-increasing debt to pay for ever-increasing tuition costs, which would allow those students to them get high-paying jobs down the road from which to pay back their debt. Only problem is that you have to make the investment far in advance, and now it turns out that those jobs no longer exist in the quantities that they used to. So how exactly do you want people to boot-strap their way out of this?
Really simple... save for your kids in advance. Not rocket science, and one of the great wonders of the world is compound interest. School debt is for those that are ill-prepared, or parents that just don't have the ability or care. Not my problem.
Nothing's your problem in your fantasy world. But unless you can live without the help of other human beings I suggest you change your attitude. The fact of the matter is that many parents can save enough money to pay their kid's way through school these days. Do you believe some Americans should work 2 and 3 jobs to barely have enough to stay out of debt while you sit at home and complain all day on city-data just because you got in on a good business opportunity? Please.
Good business opportunities are like shooting fish in a barrel, and have nothing to do with this thread. I live in the farthest thing from a fantasy world. I live in reality. Built upon smart decisions, goal planning, and strategic lifestyle. My life is being donated to helping others, not others helping me. Can you say the same?
When you say "The fact of the matter is that many parents can save enough money to pay their kid's way through school these days."
The point of this thread is to get rid of 'Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012', of which I am in full agreement.
It can't happen because, as I said, the entire mechanism under which the debt was arranged in the first place was based on a false paradigm.
'splain to me Lucy, that when the nephew got out of school (in Biotech) started at a salary of $120K. Not too shabby. (and had zero debt). People need to plan ahead.
Your nephew isn't the majority of Americans. You clearly seem to be out of touch. I say this being lucky enough to not have student loans do to academics and athletics.
I would say then that no one in my family is in the majority (and am happy about it). I guess we should all be penalized for thinking ahead, finding opportunities, and helping others. As stated in many of my other posts, "If you are looking for a hand, the best place to find one is at the end of your own arm."
For myself, I started saving $100/week for schooling a child when I got out of college (a long time ago). Might seem strange, since I have no kids, but now I can send the gf's daughter to any college in the US, for cash.
7 P's: PPPPPPP (Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents P*ss Poor Performance.) This is not an IQ test.
Wal-mart sells goods. Just because they sell goods, doesn't mean I should go and empty my bank account at Wal-mart.
Banks extend loans to those who apply. Does that mean I should go take out as many loans as the bank will give me? No it doesn't.
It's called career planning. While not every little detail of life can be figured during this process, it is incumbent on the individual to perform their own cost/benefit analysis and see to it that the plans they have make sense, and should even include a contingency plan in order to absorb the unexpected as best as possible. If this means going to a cheaper school, so be it. That's life.
Life is not fair sometimes. We all know that. The government should not be in the business in ensuring that it's fair by subsidizing poor decisions.
What's hard to understand about that? I don't get it.
But once again you are putting all the responsibility on the borrower and none on the lender. Lenders should protect themselves by assuming that borrowers are NOT doing exactly what you say they should be doing. If the government and the student loan industry doesn't want to do any due diligence, then they reap what they sow.
It would be very easy for loan institutions to require borrowers to do the very things that you list as a condition of receiving a loan. These institutions do not do so. Any idea as to why? My guess is that such planning would make potential borrowers think twice before borrowing at all or to the extent that they might, which is exactly what such lenders do NOT want these borrowers to do!
But once again you are putting all the responsibility on the borrower and none on the lender. Lenders should protect themselves by assuming that borrowers are NOT doing exactly what you say they should be doing. If the government and the student loan industry doesn't want to do any due diligence, then they reap what they sow.
It would be very easy for loan institutions to require borrowers to do the very things that you list as a condition of receiving a loan. These institutions do not do so. Any idea as to why? My guess is that such planning would make potential borrowers think twice before borrowing at all or to the extent that they might, which is exactly what such lenders do NOT want these borrowers to do!
Caveat Emptor.
Let me loan you $200K. I don't care if you can't pay it back. If you don't, then you and your entire family (stated in the contract) become indentured servants for life, with 25% interest forever, the balance to be assumed by your children. Then let's see if you will take the loan.
I don't understand why people feel they have no responsibility or accountability for anything. I guess I am just stupid.
(There is a commercial on TV from a native-american source, that will lend you $5000, at only 116% interest rate).
You borrow money, you pay it back. Learned that when I was about 6 years old. Geez.
The issue is systemic, not individual. The scale of the debt has gotten to the point where it is sucking money out of the "real" economy, and (especially among younger Americans), economic consumption is falling due to the amount of money going toward debt service.
The auto industry is currently trying to deal with a collapse in demand from people under 35, and a lot of that has to do with loan payment displacement of disposable income.
When a problem is systemic, you can't solve it by focusing on individual cases. We have to think in systemic terms at this point.
If student loans were a $100 billion bubble, this would be a different conversation. But now that they are approaching $1.1 trillion? This thing is big, it's national, and it's imminent. Merely chiding people to "pay up" hasn't worked so far (due to a sheer lack of money). And based on past performance, I think we can safely predict that it won't work in the future, either.
So the question is, how do we address this crisis on a systemic level?
Forgiving legal debt is anti-American and rewarding bad decisions undermines the values that this nation was founded on. Perhaps you don't share those values?
We're rewarding a hell of a lot of people based on a bad decision to invade Iraq to the tune of a trillion, maybe double that much.
Don't see any complaints about that.
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