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Homeschooling can also be a disaster. Not all parents make good teachers. Not all parents even make good parents.
I would say that it's none of your business. You may not want to homeschool your kids, but by what authority do you restrict others' rights to do so? I would rather see more parents educate their kids rather than the government. I will go out on a limb and say that parents knows best about their children, not the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale
LOL @ abolishing the public schools because some think it is theft.
What an idea. Make sure only the elites have an education. Lets go hard core third world!
No, you don't get it. Government is taking money out of your pocket saying they will educate your kids. Guess what happens in the end? You lose your money and your kids get a pathetic education. If that money was left in your pocket, you could educate your child in whatever way you like, and still have money leftover to do other things.
When people are paying from their own pocket for their kids' education, they would demand value for their money, which means that the schools actually now have to perform to retain their clients (kids). More private schools would open up, and as is the case with any field where there is competition, prices would fall, thus making education even more affordable, while at the same time increasing quality. Capitalism at work.
Education and Healthcare are the only two fields where even as the technology improves, the prices continue to rise. Reason? Heavy government interference.
About your "Third World" comment, kids from India and China, where the government doesn't steal from you in the name of "educating" your kids, regularly kick the American kids' butt in Math and Science, so maybe there is a lesson to learn there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
There's a reason this guy was highly respected by leading founders of this nation...
"A nation under a well regulated government, should permit none to remain uninstructed. It is monarchical and aristocratical government only that requires ignorance for its support."
- Thomas Paine, 1792
I can see, however, why many would prefer otherwise.
Thomas Paine was a great man, but I believe you are misinterpreting the quote. Paine didn't mean that the government should go around educating everyone. I am reading it as saying that the government should probably hold the local communities and parents accountable if a child is left uneducated. Again, this doesn't necessarily mean a top-down approach from Washington. Local communities can handle it better.
Irregardless, it's not written into the Constitution that the government should educate our children. If the Founding Fathers had wanted that, they would have.
Thomas Paine was a great man, but I believe you are misinterpreting the quote. Paine didn't mean that the government should go around educating everyone. I am reading it as saying that the government should probably hold the local communities and parents accountable if a child is left uneducated. Again, this doesn't necessarily mean a top-down approach from Washington. Local communities can handle it better.
Paine was fundamentally a grass-roots person. So you're correct, he looked upon everything from that perspective, as opposed to top down. But where you have it upside down is the idea that government involvement can only be "top down". It is because you see the government as an entity being a "ruler" rather than a representative of ALL people.
The level of governance is a moot point in the quote. The idea engrained is very simple, and brilliant: The government must ensure that education be made a priority and people not be left on the whims of others. He was, clearly, demanding government to play a role, NOT... not to play a role. He was not prescribing solution, he was pointing at the need of education for a successfully society and the government's responsibility towards that effect. And, BTW, he was specifically talking of a nation, not just of local communities.
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 03-14-2012 at 08:54 AM..
All aristocracies prefer an ignorant peasantry befuddled by religion. An educated and thoughtful population is a threat to their dominance. Why should the aristocrat's money be used to train their children’s future competition? That is sheer foolishness.
Our aristocracy is not as well named as in feudal times but is stronger than ever. Why do you think there is a network of private schools from daycare to Harvard post graduate? The system is there to train future aristocrats so their political and economic power is never threatened. It is not based on what the kids learn but on who they know.
We need public education from the daycare to the post graduate that provides the same combination of education and association to keep us from being completely dominated by our own corrupt aristocracy. We also need a business system where what you know is more important than who you know.
I would prefer all private education be eliminated before public education is touched. I am an egalitarian not an aristocrat.
All aristocracies prefer an ignorant peasantry befuddled by religion. An educated and thoughtful population is a threat to their dominance. Why should the aristocrat's money be used to train their children’s future competition? That is sheer foolishness.
Our aristocracy is not as well named as in feudal times but is stronger than ever. Why do you think there is a network of private schools from daycare to Harvard post graduate? The system is there to train future aristocrats so their political and economic power is never threatened. It is not based on what the kids learn but on who they know.
We need public education from the daycare to the post graduate that provides the same combination of education and association to keep us from being completely dominated by our own corrupt aristocracy. We also need a business system where what you know is more important than who you know.
I would prefer all private education be eliminated before public education is touched. I am an egalitarian not an aristocrat.
Why do you think students of private schools score higher on college entrance exams than those attending public school.
Private schools students score higher on college exams, if true, than public school students because of parental involvement and, most likely, more extensive tutoring. As the kids are no different overall the environment must make the difference. The biggest difference in environment is the time and money spent on education the aristocrat's children. IMHO the reason is money for tutors and enforced study time.
If we spent enough money to structure the curriculum for each individual student and for providing extra tutoring as required along with a studious culture the public educated children would do as well. Please remember public education was invented to create a mass workforce capable of working without much further instruction. Industrialists did not want to spend their money on educating a workforce so they made everyone pay for their benefit.
voucher system the sooner the better. k12 is a giant social engineering machine no longer dedicated to producing literate productive members of society.
1. That is not necessarily true. I'd like to see some documentation.
2. IF, and it's a big IF, that's true, it's due to the cherry-picking of the private schools.
Yes, that is one of the main reasons people send their kids to private schools. One is more likely to be involved when they have to pay for it and behavior problems are not tolerated beyond a certain point. Tracking is also allowed which gives room for either challenge or re-teaching. More attention is paid to academic curriculum and the bar for being promoted is held higher than in public school.
This isn't something new. This is how private schools have always operated.
While public school education has always been a tad lower than private school, the last decade+ of NCLB has really done it in between the carrot/stick approach of passing, AYP and Fed dollars being dangled to the schools. We lowered the bar so that "No Child is Left Behind".
Yes, that is one of the main reasons people send their kids to private schools. One is more likely to be involved when they have to pay for it and behavior problems are not tolerated beyond a certain point. Tracking is also allowed which gives room for either challenge or re-teaching. More attention is paid to academic curriculum and the bar for being promoted is held higher than in public school.
This isn't something new. This is how private schools have always operated.
While public school education has always been a tad lower than private school, the last decade+ of NCLB has really done it in between the carrot/stick approach of passing, AYP and Fed dollars being dangled to the schools. We lowered the bar so that "No Child is Left Behind".
I disagree 10,000% that "public school education has always been a tad lower than private school". A public school's average SAT/ACT scores may be lower, but that's b/c public schools have to take everybody. In Colorado, ALL juniors take the ACT.
Private schools cherry-pick, no doubt about it. They can turn you away if they don't think you're going to help raise their test scores. I don't agree that more attention is paid to curriculum. Some are so small they can't offer everything a comprehensive public high school offers, and some are so focused on religion they don't pay attention to higher academics.
I'm no fan of NCLB, but it is only the latest interation of the ESEA.
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