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Old 03-12-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,892 posts, read 14,079,889 times
Reputation: 16599

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Americans are routinely nudged with the notion that they owe a "fair share".

Really?

If only one could scream, in typeface, "There is no FAIR SHARE of slavery!"

Compulsory labor for the benefit of another, whether imposed by private or public authority, is slavery.

And if it was voluntary servitude, but the consent was acquired by FRAUD, it is equally repulsive.

.................................................. ..
What did the "Founding Generation" understand about government?

Declaration of Independence : job #1 = secure rights, job #2 = govern those who consent.

States?
Virginia Constitution, 1776.
SEC. 6. That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people, in assembly, ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community, have the right of suffrage, and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for public uses, without their own consent, or that of their representatives so elected*, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assembled, for the public good.
All men ... cannot be taxed without their own consent.
All men ... cannot be deprived of their property for public uses without their own consent.
All men ... cannot be bound by any law that is not for the public good.

Consent means having the power to say NO!
(The ballot is not consent, for one can only vote "YES")

{*only tax paying property owners could vote, ergo, not all Virginians gave consent to be bound by all laws.}
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,892 posts, read 14,079,889 times
Reputation: 16599
ol remus and the woodpile report
For a very long time now our representatives neither write nor read the legislation they pass into law, nor need they. Proposals of import arrive in their hands fully formed by the real government. Those owed exceptions are excepted and those owed favors are favored, and they call it consensus. Those who express contrary opinion are bribed, threatened, extorted or otherwise neutered, and why not, they represent nobody, which is what The People have become—nobody. Contrary opinion itself is politicized, medicalized or militarized until it's not merely contrary but illegitimate and dangerously so. In short, our actual opinions as we express them count for nothing because The People count for nothing.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,849,967 times
Reputation: 7118
Remember now, the media will never challenge obama on exactly what he means by "fair share".

The top 10% pays over 70% of the taxes in this country. Sounds MORE than fair to me.

Almost 50% pay no federal taxes. Now that doesn't seem quite "fair", does it?
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC USA
3,457 posts, read 4,642,802 times
Reputation: 1907
There will never be a fair share and it is based on one simple thing: The government spends too much.

So there will never be a fair flat tax as we could never fund the government. So Obama creates class warfare with his statements and gives his support for OWS and comes up with asinine statements that the rich don't pay their fair share when in fact the burden of this country is placed on their backs. It is the government "punish success" theory.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:41 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
16,955 posts, read 12,517,672 times
Reputation: 8873
>The top 10% pays over 70% of the taxes in this country. Sounds MORE than fair to me.<
And they own 71% of the assets.
They pay 70% of the FEDERAL INCOME taxes.
why do people insist on ignoring payroll, and various state taxes like sales tax?
That being said the US must cut spending in a real way (See Sen Coburns ideas tho I would not do all these things there is some real good info in his plan) combined with increasing taxes on the true wealthy, especially in the rent seeking and financial sectors. Wall street has turned into a vicious feedback loop of the uber rich manipulating the market for the uber rich. Remember the banks did not pay back tarp because they thought it was a good thing, they did it because 500K was just too little money to pay people.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,327,324 times
Reputation: 8672
You should pay for the amount of profitability you have. The richest corporation makes their money, in part, because of the security and stability of these United States, which is given them through government programs that keep the poor feed and not out in gangs on the streets. Its given them through the police agencies that provide them with further safety for those that would still do harm. Its given them by a military that protects our borders, and to some extent, our foreign interests. Its given them by clean air and healthy workers, which are in large part due to government efforts to keep people that way.

The biggest single cost to most businesses, healthcare, which isn't government controlled.

Now I'm not saying that innovation, the free market, and everything else doesn't play a role in their success, it does. But to ignore that their tax dollars and your tax dollars go to a common good that provide the opportunity for profitability is to ignore reality.

Governments job is to create the environment for job creation, but not to create jobs. The reason the United States is still able to sell its bonds to other countries is because we are so stable.

I don't want more back then I've given in. In fact, I pay well more then I get back for my small part of the pie.

But when people say "their fair share", I think the problem comes in when they are paying 25-35% taxes, and others are paying 0 or 15% tax rates.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:23 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,724,833 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Americans are routinely nudged with the notion that they owe a "fair share".

Really?

If only one could scream, in typeface, "There is no FAIR SHARE of slavery!"

Compulsory labor for the benefit of another, whether imposed by private or public authority, is slavery.

And if it was voluntary servitude, but the consent was acquired by FRAUD, it is equally repulsive.

.................................................. ..
What did the "Founding Generation" understand about government?

Declaration of Independence : job #1 = secure rights, job #2 = govern those who consent.

States?
Virginia Constitution, 1776.
SEC. 6. That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people, in assembly, ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community, have the right of suffrage, and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for public uses, without their own consent, or that of their representatives so elected*, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assembled, for the public good.
All men ... cannot be taxed without their own consent.
All men ... cannot be deprived of their property for public uses without their own consent.
All men ... cannot be bound by any law that is not for the public good.

Consent means having the power to say NO!
(The ballot is not consent, for one can only vote "YES")

{*only tax paying property owners could vote, ergo, not all Virginians gave consent to be bound by all laws.}
The "fair share" taxing paradigm is totally corrupt. It empowers our political masters to determine how much of our money we get to keep based on some nebulous and largely elastic concept of "fairness."

Fairness results from applying the same rules to all persons alike. That is why justice is supposed to be blind. The result of judging should be the same whether the litigant is rich or poor, powerful or weak. And the same principle ought to apply to taxation. After all we all benefit equally from the services government provides, whether those services are police, military security, infra structure, etc.

The idea that progressive taxation is fair derives from the Marxist ideas that permeated the Progressive Era when the income tax was introduced: from each according to his ability... . And those ideas have at bottom class envy and class warfare as their justification. That is what allows demagogues like Obama to turn American against American--to his political advantage. Obama and his accolytes in Congress, the media, accademia and the entertainment industry are a plague upon this nation.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
5,404 posts, read 15,953,913 times
Reputation: 8093
I was always taught that life is NOT fair....and it truly isn't. We do have laws that give everyone a shot at the life they want...not all will achieve it....not all are able! And, that's ok! If you start going with the idea that "everyone is equal" and everyone deserves the same things, then you've started down the road to communism!

Each person should work to their potential...and strive for as much as they can. Charities will take care of the truly needy....that's not the government's place!
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,327,324 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea View Post
I was always taught that life is NOT fair....and it truly isn't. We do have laws that give everyone a shot at the life they want...not all will achieve it....not all are able! And, that's ok! If you start going with the idea that "everyone is equal" and everyone deserves the same things, then you've started down the road to communism!

Each person should work to their potential...and strive for as much as they can. Charities will take care of the truly needy....that's not the government's place!
I don't think anyone is asking for a hand out, well most, but they would like to be treated the same, with the same tax rates.

Asking rich people to pay the same percentage on their income as a middle class family isn't communistic.
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:31 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,358,935 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Remember now, the media will never challenge obama on exactly what he means by "fair share".

The top 10% pays over 70% of the taxes in this country. Sounds MORE than fair to me.

Almost 50% pay no federal taxes. Now that doesn't seem quite "fair", does it?

How much of the discretionary income do the top 10% have? If they have over 70% of the discretionary income, they are not overtaxed.

A childless adult working full time at minimum wage pays over $500/yr in federal income taxes. Perhaps the Family Values voters stopped paying federal taxes since the Bush Tax Cuts?
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