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Ah, I haven't read anyone argue that there wasn't some kind of physical scuffle but I don't see how any one can argue that a bloody nose and bobo on the back of the head justifies a 9mm through the heart
If you're getting whopped, you DO NOT have to wait for the person whooping you to pull out a gun first before you pull yours out and use it in "self defense." Any cop will tell you that, and he's lying if he says that he would wait while he gets his ass whopped before he uses his.
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Nor does it answer the question who was most justified in such a fight to feel threatened. A 17 year old minding his own business or some guy stalking and later chasing after him? A point that you folks seem even more determined to gloss over.
I don't disagree with that. I've said it several times--I'm not so sure it can be "self defense" if the fact of the matter is-- you could have minimized the need for "lethal force" had you just kept your ass in the car. For that reason, I would try to get him on the manslaughter charge.
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What if the man where wearing a hoodie, or even scarier was black. Would you still be rushing to defend this guy?
Now don't lie, because god don't like liars (or so I have been told
Just because some us are dealing with facts, and can see the grey area here, does not mean that he is being defended. This "with us, or against" line of thinking has completely reached levels of absurdity in here.
By the logic being posited upon us, a young woman walking home from the store sees a man in a car following her. She decides after getting a look at him to take off running. The man gets out of his car and chases after her. After running a ways the woman picks up a brick and smacks the guy upside his head who after recovering from the shock pulls out his trusty 9mm and shoots the woman through the heart. Now based upon this hypothetical situation which is IDENTICAL to the one we are discussing, are you now going to argue that this gentleman would have been given a bi by the police and you would be sitting here inventing justifications for his actions?
"Hey, you dropped your car keys, Miss"
You're conveniently glazing over any dialogue. It's clear they had an exchange of words by the girlfriends account.
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What if the man had a record of being arrested for some sexual crime but the charges were dropped?
What if Trayvon was suspended for assault or bullying?
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What if the man where wearing a hoodie, or even scarier was black. Would you still be rushing to defend this guy?
I would still be defending the fact that it's very hard to judge without access to all avenues.
Uh dullard. Zimmerman claims it was him too. He said this before the recordings came out. It's been rarely discussed or mentioned since early March.
Dullard??? Not nice and a direct violation of the TOS.
Now whose word am I going to take, Zimmerman who was there and knew someone was crying for help or Martin's mother? And speaking of dullards, why would Zimmerman scream for help before he shoots but does call for help after he shoots? Where is his 911 call after the shooting?
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I've listened to it 10 times myself, and still can't say for sure whether it's a boy's voice or a 28 year old grown man's.
You can put twenty 19 year old girls in a room, record them, play it back and I promise you I can pick out my daughters voice.
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Of course Treyvon's parents are going to say that it was their son's--they have a vested interest in saying that.
It quite simple to have the recordings analyzed for voice recognition.
It's plausable that Tryevon was whooping him, while Zimmerman yelled for help--and then pulled it out and popped.
First plausible apologia posted today.
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Again--nothing definite, but I would entertain the possibility that he either shot in "self defense" (for lack of a better term) despite putting himself in that situation OR Tryevon could have whopped him up attempted to leave, when Zimmerman pulled out and shot.
I'm fine with any of that. My point is that it really doesn't matter to me what happened in the back of that house. Zimmerman had no business pursuing anyone as a result he was looking for trouble, not standing his ground as the law's sponsors have pointed out.
Using the Stand Your Ground defense, you could presumably roll up on ANYONE, aggravate them, start a fight, say they were looking strange and WHEN the fight starts, PULL your gun in self-defense. ANYONE can do this. It's not like the CASTLE defense in Texas.
If a guy show's up in your house at night- Not a lotta time for conversation. My bad if you were carrying cookies from Grandma...if you're in someone's home uninvited they're free to aerate your chest.
However for you to get out of your car, walk up to someone, get into a fight, then shoot- it's hard to say your life was threatened by the supposed precipitating event. The situation was easily avoided by staying in your car.
They also had a bloodied man who claimed self defense. His story was plausible. A lot of arm chair policemen out there.
I just posed a question to you on another poston on the subject and I am awaiting your reply, but as for this post...ever hear of the word "FORENSICS"?????
To be continued, also awaiting your reply.
Last edited by sickofnyc; 03-22-2012 at 07:34 PM..
But a gun should be used only in self-defense, unless you're a cop. An untrained person, with a gun, pretending to be a cop, is only going to get themselves into situations of their own design where they eventually will feel threatened and will go for the gun.
If the guy was breaking into someone's home that another thing. But if you see a kid walking down the street, you call the police and let it be.
No one felt in necessary to pop the 'Kony 2012' guy who was running around naked and screaming- and he was a bit suspicious- let the cops do their job.
That's what he claimed and the police believed him.
Citizens have a right to get involved. He can follow him in fact he had done just that before allowing the police to capture a shoplifter.
Maybe if the Black American community had more men like Zimmerman, willing to keep watch, crime wouldn't be out of control in the areas where they live.
The Kony guy was prancing around in LaLa land, case closed.
It's undervalued by Black Americans first and foremost. A cursory look at the murder, educational and other demographic stats confirm that.
You are sick to keep going on and on on these boards that this boy was killed due to some sort of statistics of other black people. Very sick indeed.
The majority of black men are not criminal, only a small minority of them are. Out of 40 million black people in this country only 2.8 million, a little over 5% of us and this includes both men and women, were arrested for any sort of violent crime. (Source 2010 uniform crime statistics USA) So your whole premise of young black males being some sort of violent meandering mess and the majority of them out committing heinous acts is GROSSLY incorrect.
Also, you say you are black so I guess if you or your brother or even your father is murdered in the same fashion as young Trayvon, you deserve it since so many black men are criminals.
You are full of crap and you probably know it, which is why you keep trying to pull this BS on the many threads that have been raised on this subject. You can rail all you want against the statistics on black people but make sure to make them more realistic when it comes to crime. Ninety-five percent (95%) of black people are not criminals and do not commit crimes and are not arrested. Also take into account of the fact that the arrests cited in the source do not show convictions. I would guess at least 30% of those arrested were not convicted. I know someone who is a part of the 2009 statistics who was arrested for murder but eventually he went to trial and was acquitted so was not an actual murderer. You should really stop pushing your crap and I so hope you are just a person looking for laughs with an idiotic, self-hating, internet alias persona.
If you're getting whopped, you DO NOT have to wait for the person whooping you to pull out a gun first before you pull yours out and use it in "self defense." Any cop will tell you that, and he's lying if he says that he would wait while he gets his ass whopped before he uses his.
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I don't disagree with that. I've said it several times--I'm not so sure it can be "self defense" if the fact of the matter is-- you could have minimized the need for "lethal force" had you just kept your ass in the car. For that reason, I would try to get him on the manslaughter charge.
Just because some us are dealing with facts, and can see the grey area here, does not mean that he is being defended. This "with us, or against" line of thinking has completely reached levels of absurdity in here.
I don't understand some people if a woman was being pummeled by a man and she pulled out a gun and killed him wouldn't she be able to claim self-defense even though the man may not be armed?
Oh really now? Trying to make this out that a liberal black man legislated this situation? Or the predominately BLACK police force made these decisions? The burden of proof is upon YOU for implying such nonsense.
Glen Beck is such a low life..How disgusting that he attacks a deceased teenage boy and is telling lies on top of it. There is a place for Beck. Some of these people are digging for something bad on this boy and praying that Zimmeran and the Sanford PD literally get away with murder. What message are we sending if there are no consequences for this?
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