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Santorum doesn't have an opinion because he can't get his head out of everyone's bedrooms and pants.
We did not go there to bring democracy etc. etc. There are many many places to set up terrorist gatherings (don't need the sand and monkey bars) and places like Somalia, Yemen, North Africa, all over there are plenty of places. The Taliban weren't really a governing group in the way westerners think of it, and Pakistan's ISI was the force behind what we called the Taliban then.
Anyone who knows any history of the area knows that there is no real nation of Afghanistan, but a bunch of warring ethnic groups who only pull together against an outside force. If Pres. Cheney/Bush hadn't raced into Iraq, we could have pulled out of Afghanistan in good time, regardless of the governing situation there (since there hardly is one anyway). I fear that Obama isn't pulling out of Afghanistan now for fear of looking weak, and we are essentially out of Iraq without any real statement as to why we were there or stayed or whatever.
I just insist that whoever is in government and holds the money, *take care* of the veterans who have been so cynically abused and used and lost their lives and health.
I believe aside from dismantling the Al Qaeda and Taliban regime the goal is (was?) to leave a somewhat self-sustaining democratic country.
That last part does not appear likely.
We never did beat the Taliban. We put out the fire, but we never could stamp out the burning coals. If we pulled out tomorrow, the Taliban would come back. Once the Taliban was back, the Arab terrorists would be soon to follow.
Santorum doesn't have an opinion because he can't get his head out of everyone's bedrooms and pants.
We did not go there to bring democracy etc. etc. There are many many places to set up terrorist gatherings (don't need the sand and monkey bars) and places like Somalia, Yemen, North Africa, all over there are plenty of places. The Taliban weren't really a governing group in the way westerners think of it, and Pakistan's ISI was the force behind what we called the Taliban then.
Anyone who knows any history of the area knows that there is no real nation of Afghanistan, but a bunch of warring ethnic groups who only pull together against an outside force. If Pres. Cheney/Bush hadn't raced into Iraq, we could have pulled out of Afghanistan in good time, regardless of the governing situation there (since there hardly is one anyway). I fear that Obama isn't pulling out of Afghanistan now for fear of looking weak, and we are essentially out of Iraq without any real statement as to why we were there or stayed or whatever.
I just insist that whoever is in government and holds the money, *take care* of the veterans who have been so cynically abused and used and lost their lives and health.
There are more places than Afghanistan, but Afghanistan is a particularly good place to hide out and plot death to infidels.
I agree with your criticism of the way the Cheney administration handled the war, but I disagree that Afghanistan is not a nation. It is multiethnic, but it's ethnicities have recognized themselves as part of the larger nation of Afghanistan since the 1700s. There are no separatist movements there.
We can't just up and pull everyone out tomorrow, but the process of draw down and leaving by years end should begin.
"Should." The president could make it happen right now. And we all know it.
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But I always ask this, who is the Republican alternative?
Why do you ask? You'll vote for Obama anyway. He'll be re-elected. Hes the one you should be asking. No, make that demanding an answer!
It just amazes me how Obama is handled with kid gloves by you on the Left, which sees itself as the anti-war, anti-foreign entangements, anti-military industrial complex side.
Every day that goes by, every soldier maimed or killed to buy time for Obama until the election, is another piece of evidence that the Left is every bit as morally bankrupt as those they mock and criticze on the Right -- or actually, more so, since the Left endlessly professes its sincere desire for peace and an end to the American role as policeman for the world. While working to re-elect a man who escalated in Afghanistan and threatens to go to war for Israel.
Face it: none of the "moral" arguments made by so-called progressives are worth a bucket of warm spit. All they want is power. Just like the regressives on the Right, who at least are honest enough not to lie about it.
Jackasses and elephants. Pretty damn sad choices we have in this country.
"I disagree that Afghanistan is not a nation. It is multiethnic, but it's ethnicities have recognized themselves as part of the larger nation of Afghanistan since the 1700s. There are no separatist movements there."
I say it's not a nation in the sense of having become a nation organically (through wars or whatever) but people's loyalties appear to have been primarily to their ethnic group with a weak central government, like so many places that did not grow into a nation organically (however much blood that took).
Or maybe the "nation of Afghanistan" is not the same as "central government" or "governing body. It seems that the only peaceable period for the country was during the king's time, some 30 years before the Soviet invasion.
As for "terrorist training areas," all anyone has to do is cross the arbitrary line and be in the Pakistani tribal areas, and they're homefree. After all, if the ISI was behind the Taliban (whoever they actually are/were), it doesn't matter if the official Afghanistan isn't run by the Taliban. It would appear that the nation of Afghanistan is a lot more like a Pashtunistan, or should be.
Anyway, occupying it as much as we might try isn't going to do anything, certainly nothing worth the blood and treasure. Bring the people home, take care of them, and use intelligence and special ops and stuff. After all, Pakistan is a lot more dangerous, and no one is suggesting that we occupy them (yet). Somehow we got through decades of Cold War without occupying the Soviet Union, although we had our proxy wars.
Terrorism is a state of life we live with now, as do so many other countries, from many other groups. Occupying one shattered country isn't going to prevent some fool from sticking some stuff he made after five days of training in Yemen into his underwear, and terrorist acts, if not prevented (it is inevitable that some will succeed) aren't taking the existence of the U.S. into question.
A girl I went to high school with was blown up by a terrorist grenade on a plane refueling in Greece, by, I think, some group with a Greek issue vs. America. Or something (the plane was headed to Saudi Arabia). Tragic, as are all successful terrorist attacks, but not worth the Afghanistan situation in an effort to prevent them.
I just watched "Meet the Press" John McCain was on saying that we shouldnt be thinking of pulling out of Afghanistan but stay the course and achieve victory.. He never did paint a picture of what victory would look like so i was wondering if any one could tell me what would constitute victory by our continued occupation of the country.
I personally am one of those who thought it was a mistake to go there in the first place and think the prudent move at the moment would be to bring every one home.
Is this Stay the course attitude wide spread in the Republican community?
The mentality is that we have to WIN at all costs. But the problem is by staying longer we end up losing what we gained. Short of crushing an insurgency brutally you will not win. And you have to plan to be there for dozens if not hundreds of years. I mean how long did rome deal with the jews?
No point in us remaining in country. Afghanistan has been a mid-evil barbaric country for thousands of years and it will remain as one. Those people HATE us, it's time to come home.
You're probably not going to like my answer, but I will give it anyways. The primary reason we are in Afghanistan to stop another terrorist attack. I know it seems way too simple to be true, but that's really what this about -- not stealing resources, not achieving some Nixonian "peace with honor", etc. We are staying long enough to try to give Karzai's government a fighting chance against the Taliban.
If we leave before Karzai is able to fight off the Taliban, the Taliban will of course take over in a civil war. If they do, Afghanistan will again become a safe haven for terrorists from the Arab world who are intent on striking targets in the western world. We'll be where we were in 2000. Can terrorists plot against us from any location? Yes -- but having a place like Afghanistan to hide out makes them a lot more effective. It's harder to hatch a good plot in a nation that has the resources, know-how and willingness to thwart it.
I know it sounds simple, but sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar. We're trying to deny an enemy a strategic advantage by having a failed state to hide out in.
Even if the USA waits until Karzi is able to fight off the Taliban, there can still be a terrorist attack on the USA before or after that fact/event.
In my opinion as soon as Bin Laden's death was confirmed, the USA Government should have started to implement a plan for US troops to start exiting Afghanistan.
Actually, if the real point of going to Afghanistan in the first place was bin Laden and company, we should have left as soon as it was apparent he wasn't *in* Afghanistan. Anyway, you don't invade and occupy a country for one guy, no matter how influential.
I think the "mission creep" came when Bush said there would be no difference between terrorists and those who harbor them, hence, the Taliban. Now, the Taliban are not and were not a central government in the American/European sense, and Afghans are quite famous for switching sides/alliances almost like a deadly chess game.
Bring the people home and pay whatever it takes to take care of them.
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He never did paint a picture of what victory would look like so i was wondering if any one could tell me what would constitute victory by our continued occupation of the country.
