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Old 03-21-2012, 09:27 AM
 
58,421 posts, read 26,752,393 times
Reputation: 14081

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkm370 View Post
Paul Ryan's plan is just a bunch of failed ideas we already tried. I mean whats next, another New Deal from the democrats?
Like what.

Be specific.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:32 AM
 
58,421 posts, read 26,752,393 times
Reputation: 14081
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikoshaprl View Post
If the democrats in the senate want to add tax increases then why don't they take Ryan's plan and make their own adjustments then send it back to the house. That is the way our government is supposed to work. But Reid will not even consider the bill. Our budget is fine just the way it is, right?
After Obama first came into office with a dem controlled Congress, they increased spending by around 24%.

They do NOT want to discuss any Bidget that might decrease any of that spending.

Mu using the Continuing Resolution tactic, they never have to answer to the public why they WON'T reduce any of that 24% increase.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:36 AM
 
58,421 posts, read 26,752,393 times
Reputation: 14081
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Representative government provides what voters want. You call heeding to voter's need, "pandering." That's absurd.

Besides, how is lowering taxes on the rich even more and paying for that by slashing programs for everyone else, "saving this country?" That's the opposite of saving this country. We have ten years of experience showing us that cutting taxes on wealth doesn't do anything but further enrich the rich. Why would more be expected to be any different?

The old Ryan Budget claimed to reduce the deficit but only by making exaggerating claims, such as immediately upon passage, unemployment would drop to a point not seen since the Korean War. It also uses magic asterisks forging baseless assumptions. What it did was lower taxes on the rich and shift the cost of government downward, while doing nothing to lower the deficit.

The new Ryan Plan doesn't even state where the tax brackets start and end.

From today's NY Times Editorial:


Oh, and do you really think that the Ryan Budget, which the GOP knows will never get passed the Senate, isn't pandering to the conservative Republican base?
Are you really willing to go on record and claim there are NO gov't programs that be reduced or eliminated?

And each and every one is so vital the country that without them we will collapse?
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,871,832 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
After Obama first came into office with a dem controlled Congress, they increased spending by around 24%.
No they didn't. In 2009, spending mainly increased due to automatic spending (unemployment insurance, food stamps, Medicaid, etc.) due to higher unemployment of the Great Recession. To suggest that Democrats voted to start a spending spree once that had full control, is a particularly dishonest suggestion. As evident, the are no new programs to point to that would suggest a spending spree in the order of a 24% increase. The stimulus, was $878 billion, with 40% tax cuts, spread over two years and the ACA wasn't even law yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Are you really willing to go on record and claim there are NO gov't programs that be reduced or eliminated?

And each and every one is so vital the country that without them we will collapse?
What I am saying is that cutting the copy paper budget for dept. X isn't going to make a sizable dent and there are no minor cuts that amount to anything significant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Good. Now maybe we can discuss the specifics of the plan instead of just hurling generalities.

What, specifically don't you like?

What, if any, things do you like?
I specified the flim-flam in the Ryan budget in post #113. There are links to more comprehensive analysis. The Ryan budget furthers the extreme right-wing's objective of lowering taxes on the rich and eliminating almost all programs that the 99% use all while using distorted and unrealistic assumptions to make it seem as if the plan reduces deficits, which under realistic assumptions it does not.

Again, as the original Ryan budget, it's a flim-flam that shifts money from the middle class, seniors and lower-income Americans, disabled Americans, to the wealthiest Americans.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:56 AM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,483,446 times
Reputation: 18301
Nothing new democrtas have always beeen the tax and spend party. I time the will have bo coice but to make cuts. They now have a system that close to 50% pay no income tax. Their solution as always is tax the ric some more. They wo't eve voye to justlet the Bush cuts expire;altho they give lip serve to it.As to medicare the Breaux commison(D) gave a report of te opitons to save it. It was the Demcrats who said it dn't neeed saving.remmber.Just as it was the democrtic controlled conress that refuse to audit nieand freddie;with Barney franks afmous words;if need be we can just bail it out.We have beeen doig welth sharig since the mid 60's and like Greece we see what it has resulted in.A country where mnay have become disfuntional and dependent o fewerer and fewer.In time the results will be the same ;not cuts but austerity cuts.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,871,832 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Nothing new democrtas have always beeen the tax and spend party. I time the will have bo coice but to make cuts. They now have a system that close to 50% pay no income tax. Their solution as always is tax the ric some more. They wo't eve voye to justlet the Bush cuts expire;altho they give lip serve to it.As to medicare the Breaux commison(D) gave a report of te opitons to save it. It was the Demcrats who said it dn't neeed saving.remmber.Just as it was the democrtic controlled conress that refuse to audit nieand freddie;with Barney franks afmous words;if need be we can just bail it out.We have beeen doig welth sharig since the mid 60's and like Greece we see what it has resulted in.A country where mnay have become disfuntional and dependent o fewerer and fewer.In time the results will be the same ;not cuts but austerity cuts.
Your opinion is particularly misinformed. All we have to do is review the years during the Bush Admin. when the GOP controlled both the House and the Senate. During those years, which the economy was relatively stable, the nations had the highest deficits in history.

The rest of your post is just talking points (e.g. "We're like Greece" and Barney Frank was the Lex Luther of Congress, even though he was in the minority party when he is accused of abusing his vast powers).
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Cape Coral
5,503 posts, read 7,292,859 times
Reputation: 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Your opinion is particularly misinformed. All we have to do is review the years during the Bush Admin. when the GOP controlled both the House and the Senate. During those years, which the economy was relatively stable, the nations had the highest deficits in history.

The rest of your post is just talking points (e.g. "We're like Greece" and Barney Frank was the Lex Luther of Congress, even though he was in the minority party when he is accused of abusing his vast powers).
Maybe you forgot that Bush inherited the collapsing stock market, the bursting of the internet bubble, 911 and the resulting war that the democrats voted for, and rebuilding the military that Clinton had decimated. Bush had a democrat congress in his last two years when most of the damage to the economy was done.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,871,832 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikoshaprl View Post
Maybe you forgot that Bush inherited the collapsing stock market, the bursting of the internet bubble, 911 and the resulting war that the democrats voted for, and rebuilding the military that Clinton had decimated. Bush had a democrat congress in his last two years when most of the damage to the economy was done.
Bush inherited a budget surplus.

Let's Fact Check: Republicans controlled all the WH, Senate and House from 2003-2006.

Collapsing stock market claim:

False

The fact that you tag the Democratic Congress for the Iraq War and not the Bush Administration, who rattled the sabers for months, discredits any claim of objectivity that you may want. However, those wars were off-budget.

The issue is the deficit. One can't claim that the internet bubble, that ended in 1999-2000, was causal to the deficits as the 2001 year was a surplus year. Moreover, Bush ran a deficit every single year as President, including and especially when the GOP controlled all of Congress. How long can one milk 9/11 and the internet bubble as excuses?

One can make all kinds of excuses for why Bush had a deficit but to ignore the #1 cause, his massive tax-cuts, expects us to believe the impossible. There is no way to brush-off the fact that the Bush tax-cuts were responsible for his deficits.



Oh, Clinton didn't decimate the military.

From Slate:

Quote:
At last weekend's [2003] White House Correspondents' Dinner, one gossip column reports, liberal comedian [now Senator] Al Franken went up to Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative deputy defense secretary and said, "Clinton's military did pretty well in Iraq, huh?" Wolfowitz responded by proposing that Franken perform an anatomically impossible act.
...
the wonder weapons of Gulf War II—the weapons that allowed for "a combination of precision, speed, and boldness the enemy did not expect and the world had not seen before," as the second President Bush put it in his victory speech last night onboard the USS Abraham Lincoln—were developed and built during the presidency of Bill Clinton.

The most dramatic of these weapons was the Joint Defense Attack Munition, or JDAM (pronounced JAY-dam). JDAM is a kit, attached to a Global Positioning Satellite receiver, that can turn nearly any dumb bomb into a smart bomb.
...
Another marvel of Gulf War II was the Predator drone, an unmanned aerial vehicle that loiters in the sky for 20 hours, takes video pictures of the ground below, and streams the imagery back to command headquarters. An advanced version of this drone also carries Hellfire air-to-ground missiles; it not only views the target but destroys it.
As long as the right-wing clings to believing in self-serving myths, we will never get anywhere.

Last edited by MTAtech; 03-21-2012 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:39 AM
 
5,036 posts, read 5,116,315 times
Reputation: 2356
Ryan's folley? Still a thousand times better than anything Obama and company offer. And sorry, its no folley. Its what is needed to be done
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,871,832 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucsLose View Post
Ryan's folley? Still a thousand times better than anything Obama and company offer. And sorry, its no folley. Its what is needed to be done
Opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got one. However, the facts prove otherwise on the Ryan Budget. It's a flim-flam. One only needs to read the facts presented in this thread to realize it.
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