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Old 03-27-2012, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,766,994 times
Reputation: 5691

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One of the things that bothers me so much about the Tea Party is that they shout all sorts of accusations and slogans, but their math skills fail to impress me.

Q: How can we run this great country on tax rates of about 15% of GDP with no cuts to military spending?
A: You can't. But anyone who points out the obvious is a socialist! It gets very old.

So what is an appropriate level of taxation?

Here is an interesting link that talks about tax rates, expenditures, and their interactions with the economy over the last century or so. Make sure to follow the 31 slide summary at the bottom of the link. It is by a business website, that I think is bipartisan.

THE HISTORY OF TAXES: Here's How High Today's Rates Really Are
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:49 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,285,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
One of the things that bothers me so much about the Tea Party is that they shout all sorts of accusations and slogans, but their math skills fail to impress me.

Q: How can we run this great country on tax rates of about 15% of GDP with no cuts to military spending?
A: You can't. But anyone who points out the obvious is a socialist! It gets very old.

So what is an appropriate level of taxation?

Here is an interesting link that talks about tax rates, expenditures, and their interactions with the economy over the last century or so. Make sure to follow the 31 slide summary at the bottom of the link. It is by a business website, that I think is bipartisan.

THE HISTORY OF TAXES: Here's How High Today's Rates Really Are
But taxpayers are paying for tons more government employees than needed that can all be released back to the private sector along with their retirements.
In the 60s was 1-100, now 1-9. 1-9 not sustainable no matter what cuts are made elsewhere.

ALSO, why beyond the elderly and disabled is ANYTHING ELSE made a near permanent dependent on great society hand outs?
Elderly and disabled permanent, the rest very temporary, learn to work and pay taxes instead.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:52 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,285,615 times
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Here is what is ignorant about your chart from that business page.

#1 It lists the tax rate.
#2 Doesn't list what people were allowed to deduct as deductions.

As an example of that, back when taxes were at 90% you could write everything in life off the cost of reported income. Today the rates don't let you deduct anything like that.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:52 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,060,276 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
One of the things that bothers me so much about the Tea Party is that they shout all sorts of accusations and slogans, but their math skills fail to impress me.

Q: How can we run this great country on tax rates of about 15% of GDP with no cuts to military spending?
A: You can't. But anyone who points out the obvious is a socialist! It gets very old.

So what is an appropriate level of taxation?

Here is an interesting link that talks about tax rates, expenditures, and their interactions with the economy over the last century or so. Make sure to follow the 31 slide summary at the bottom of the link. It is by a business website, that I think is bipartisan.

THE HISTORY OF TAXES: Here's How High Today's Rates Really Are
Noted.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,766,994 times
Reputation: 5691
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
But taxpayers are paying for tons more government employees than needed that can all be released back to the private sector along with their retirements.
In the 60s was 1-100, now 1-9. 1-9 not sustainable no matter what cuts are made elsewhere.

ALSO, why beyond the elderly and disabled is ANYTHING ELSE made a near permanent dependent on great society hand outs?
Elderly and disabled permanent, the rest very temporary, learn to work and pay taxes instead.

Government employment peaked around 1990. It is a smaller slice of total employment than in a very long time.

Total Government Employment Since 1962

So, government, by most accounts is smaller than it has been in decades, but somehow the outrage continues. I don't think scapegoating or diminishing the contributions of federal employees is very fair or patriotic. They do a lot for us.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,422,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Government employment peaked around 1990. It is a smaller slice of total employment than in a very long time.

Total Government Employment Since 1962

So, government, by most accounts is smaller than it has been in decades, but somehow the outrage continues. I don't think scapegoating or diminishing the contributions of federal employees is very fair or patriotic. They do a lot for us.
What about statistics on government contractors?
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:52 PM
 
45,232 posts, read 26,464,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Government employment peaked around 1990. It is a smaller slice of total employment than in a very long time.

Total Government Employment Since 1962

So, government, by most accounts is smaller than it has been in decades, but somehow the outrage continues. I don't think scapegoating or diminishing the contributions of federal employees is very fair or patriotic. They do a lot for us.
Reality check, they leach off the productive class and contribute nothing.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,766,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Reality check, they leach off the productive class and contribute nothing.
So,if I understand this, the guys who saved our asses on the Manhattan Project, the guys who put a man on the moon, the people who invented the internet, the folks who are mapping the asteroid belt to save the future of humanity, the peeps who track tornadoes and earthquakes, and the homeland security guys trying to keep out terrorists are all useless layabouts?

And Wall Street traders, loan sharks, realtors, used car salemen, corporate lobbyists, oil barons, talk radio tycoons, and septic tank pumpers are the saviors of all humanity?

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Old 03-27-2012, 10:17 PM
 
45,232 posts, read 26,464,208 times
Reputation: 24994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
So,if I understand this, the guys who saved our asses on the Manhattan Project, the guys who put a man on the moon, the people who invented the internet, the folks who are mapping the asteroid belt to save the future of humanity, the peeps who track tornadoes and earthquakes, and the homeland security guys trying to keep out terrorists are all useless layabouts?

And Wall Street traders, loan sharks, realtors, used car salemen, corporate lobbyists, oil barons, talk radio tycoons, and septic tank pumpers are the saviors of all humanity?

All or most could be done far more effective and efficient in the private sector and some just useless ( homeland security?really? Lol)
Individuals create things, not governments.
A timely pizza delivery guy has more value to me than any politician or bureaucrat.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:23 AM
 
309 posts, read 428,014 times
Reputation: 211
I've been to Tea Party rally's and have never heard anything being said about not cutting military, quite the contrary. The Tea Party is about limited government, reducing the deficit, in other words fiscal conservatism. As an aside, it has nothing to do with social conservatism as some would have you believe. I would be interested to know which Tea Party rally stated they didn't want military cuts? The Tea Party is a grassroots movement, easily co-opted by politicians and organizations wishing Tea Party votes and giving the Tea Party an undeserved reputation. I am for cuts to the military as I don't believe the military needs automatic increases every year, which are included in the "cuts" when in fact they are for holding the military to current budgets. I can't believe I just used the word budget when discussing a facet of our government.
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