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That's sort of my point. Abortion sort of puts an end to all the rest of the crap republicans always beach about. Welfare moms, health care for all, pre existing condition Obamacare. You'd think the last thing they'd be was pro life!
I have to go to sleep now, but you all answer those questions I posed and I'll look forward to reading those plans tomorrow morning.
I'm excited to hear the end to this pro life story.
Do you go on with the life saving, or does it stop with the fetus?
It most certainly shouldn't. We need a new approach to welfare and the like (bet we'll all be saying that until the end of time), but it definitely needs to be there for those in need. It's utterly nonsensical that so many "pro-lifers" focus on the sexual responsibility - let's face it - yes, the biological parents should have, when they talk of abortion being wrong. Abortion isn't wrong because of the sexual encounter that created a life. It's wrong because the act of abortion itself (of the fetus, who has its own neurological activity and independent heartbeat) is taking a life, no matter how insignificant we imagine that life to be.
Put quite simply, is it love that motivates them or is it power and greed (by not wanting to give a little extra to help these mothers out)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
You can't just start the plan with no end, you need to finish what you start, are you prepared to do that?
Ridiculous. My question was in response to someone who said to Harrier: "Your thinking is so profoundly wrong because an unborn baby is so far from the same as people who are murdered".
They made a claim, going so far as to say someone else was incorrect. I challenged it. Now you want to make your own claims ("Seriously? A fetus is not a someone") and have the nerve to call any disagreements thereof "personal belief". Well what do you think your opinion is?
My statement: We don't know (which is a heck of a lot better than just assuming or making standards you apparently can't even define). No personal belief necessary, and certainly none for you to blame alleged lack of validity on.
My question could be answered by anyone, who actually has an answer ready.
BTW, synonyms for "someone" include "organism" and "being". So yes, a fetus is a someone no matter how you look at it.
I think my opinion is exactly that - my personal opinion (belief) and I made that very clear in my post to you.
Arguing that there is a difference between murdering an unborn baby and an actual person gives tacit agreement to the premise fetus = person (how can there be a murder without a person?), a premise with which I and others disagree. I can't answer your question, because, IMO, it is based on a faulty premise.
As to the dictionary definition of "someone:"
Quote:
Denotation is the specific, literal image, idea, concept, or object that a sign (http://classweb.gmu.edu/bhawk/101/semiotics/textsign.html - broken link) refers to.
Connotation is the figurative cultural assumptions that the image implies or suggests. It involves emotional overtones, subjective interpretation, socio-cultural values, and ideological assumptions.
The connotation of 'someone' in your original post was 'person', not 'organism' or 'being'.
*sigh* Your questioncan only be answered by someone who shares your belief system. According to what I believe, your question is not valid - an embryo/fetus <20 wks is not a person, so there is no murder.
As much as you would like for it to be so, your personal beliefs do NOT trump mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain
...which is why an embryo/fetus that dies in utero at or before 20 weeks gestation is called a miscarriage or spontaneous abortion, also why it will not receive a birth certificate (or official death certificate), only a certificate of fetal death.
One thing asked of medical examiners when called on to autopsy one of these very small bodies is whether there was air in the lungs. I think the legal position is that air in the lungs indicate that a breath had been taken, thus providing evidence of a live birth. Only then could a birth certificate be issued, a death certificate issued, or, under the right circumstances, a charge of murder be placed.
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