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Honda's approach to hydrolysis is solar power. They have a working installation in California. But to have greater volume available, as would be necessary in a large scale delivery system, the solar energy system will have to be considerably larger, or energy from other forms be available.
Honda is also working on "HES". I haven't kept up with it lately, but the Home Energy Station is modeled to be a compact unit that more than one thing: Water Heater, Electricity Generator (from natural gas) and Hydrolysis, to refuel a hydrogen powered car. Over last 6-7 years, Honda has really pushed for these forms as being the next thing, has expanded its presence considerably in solar energy as well (Honda Soltec).
That's interesting, and one more thing I'll end up spending too much time edumacating myself about-thanks . Actually, I enjoy learning about things like this. The problem with so many "alternate" power sources is that they don't require the development of just one new technology (say H2 production), they spin off into many more. I kinda wish I was a little younger, this would be an interesting field to work in. The possibilities are pretty exciting.
Hmmm, I have not read about any hydrogen based fuel for automobiles, except for fuel cells. This is a great fuel source, but I think its still too expensive for commercial use.
Fuel cell approach was taken by Honda, beginning in late 90s, which helped deliver Honda Clarity in 2009. In this picture, I think the very first generation of Honda's Home Energy System is to the left, and a more recent one (the compact, slim design) behind the car, a refueling station.
Costs are certainly an issue but that is the price of engineering something brand new. I still have my first LCD TV with me, a whopping 15" screen Samsung at that, that carried a price tag of $999 around 2000. I recently replaced it with a 32" Samsung LED TV (which also serves as my lazy monitor to my desktop which I rarely use but will serve mostly as my office TV), paid about a third for it. And back in 2004, 37" LCD (Sharp Aquos) was selling for $3500. That is what it usually takes for new technologies... high prices that come down with massive technological improvements. Companies like Honda, clearly see business opportunities well into the future, and are willing to invest in it today.
That's interesting, and one more thing I'll end up spending too much time edumacating myself about-thanks . Actually, I enjoy learning about things like this. The problem with so many "alternate" power sources is that they don't require the development of just one new technology (say H2 production), they spin off into many more. I kinda wish I was a little younger, this would be an interesting field to work in. The possibilities are pretty exciting.
That is true. I believe it was in late 1980s when Honda decided to go with electric car (Honda EV-Plus). It was also the first electric vehicle to use an efficient NiMH battery pack (GM EV1 was using lead-acid batteries at the time, and later switched to NiMH). Then, the patent for the battery was lost. Honda switched over to hybrid technology with less effective battery back (still NiMH) in Honda Insight. The old EV-Plus was switched over to be a prototype for Fuel Cell/Hydrogen technology. It still used the larger AC motor (whereas a compact DC motor was used for hybrid) but now powered with output from the fuel cell.
The initial supply of fuel cell was from Ballard Systems. Then Honda developed its own (there was a back and forth switching thru prototypes but I believe Clarity got Honda's design).
The other problem to tackle was energy storage issue. The good old NiMH design was not an option, and smaller packs still being used weren't good enough. Honda came up with idea to look at ultra-capacitor pack instead of batteries. And they, again, went about developing their own design, making it less expensive, more efficient and compact over the years. However, they have not used it in Clarity (instead, went with Li-ion battery pack).
And coupled with development of fuel cell was the drive for hydrolysis and that involves solar power (another new found opportunity for Honda) and natural gas (Honda was already producing Civic GX, and developing a home refueling unit dubbed PHIL) along with the HES.
That is a lot of alternate technologies at hand, and being combined towards a single solution. I see an impressive evolution from conception of EV-Plus in 1989 (I think) to delivery of Clarity (in 2009), while continuing to refine refueling and auxiliary systems that should help address some of infrastructural issues.
What I find so interesting about the Clairty is potential to "modularize" and test different options. It truely uses an electric motor for all it's motive power. Unlike typical hybrids that simply piggyback a motor/generator set on a typical I/C engine/transmission and driveline. That offers up a lot of opportunities. Does your customer want a vehicle stricly for urban use and can live with limited range and a long charging time? Fine, put in a big battery and go.
Need more range? Mount a small gas or diesel powered motor generator. Hydrogen becomes cost effective and the infrastructure developes to support it? Drop in the fuel cell and H2 storage. It seems like a modular approach offers a lot of options to support a number of technologies.
It also seems to be the basis for the vehicle the Volt should have been. All the pre-production hype was that it was getting direct electric drive, with the gas powerplant only functioning to drive a generator. Yet when it comes out, it's a conventional hybrid with a bigger battery. Big deal, home hobbiests have been putting big battery packs in the Prius for a decade, with a home charging system.
Before Volt was conceived, GM had a hydrogen fuel cell prototype to brag about. I never put any credibility in it, as I knew it is all talk at the moment (I used to participate a lot in automotive forums). Honda FCX was in prototypical phase at the time but wasn't about "cosmetics", just engineering trial runs in the real world.
Conceptually, Volt is a good idea probably even better if diesel motor were implemented instead. Practically, I see more Nissan Leafs in my neighborhood than Volt (and I do seem them both). But, Honda's modular approach is indeed very much visible in Clarity, which itself is a result of modular approach to development of pretty much every aspect.
Before Volt was conceived, GM had a hydrogen fuel cell prototype to brag about. I never put any credibility in it, as I knew it is all talk at the moment (I used to participate a lot in automotive forums). Honda FCX was in prototypical phase at the time but wasn't about "cosmetics", just engineering trial runs in the real world.
Conceptually, Volt is a good idea probably even better if diesel motor were implemented instead. Practically, I see more Nissan Leafs in my neighborhood than Volt (and I do seem them both). But, Honda's modular approach is indeed very much visible in Clarity, which itself is a result of modular approach to development of pretty much every aspect.
Didn't GM at one point have a concept vehicle that was a "platform", in that the chassis structure was flat aluminum or composite structure that integrated the H2 storage? With the thought that a number of different bodies could be bolted to it? GM tends to put LOTS of money into concepts and starts researching and developing new technologies, but then drops them and doesn't bring them to production.
I agree the Leaf is actually an interesting vehicle, one that I don't know enough about. It wouldn't work for me, I can't see it chewing it's way through a foot of snow and having any kind of range. But still, it works for some and is really the first practical "commercial" EV. There are others around of course, but production volume and price puts them in the exotic market.
Hey toyman - I plan on building and installing relatively inexpensive waste veggi oil fueled Diesel based co-generation heat and electricity systems for the off the grid bunch after I retire. Think there would be any interest in your neck of the woods?
Given a choice my preffered auto fuels are, in order: Diesel oil, Gasoline, Liquid Propane, CNG and, way down the list, Hydrogen.
If the govt. regs are keeping cars from exploding then they are indeed grand.
The problem with regulations is that many of them aren't simply necessities to achieve safety or the like, rather they end up being a long list of bureaucratic red tape requirements to which only serves the benefit of the bureaucracy. This often makes a given process extremely inefficient and costly.
For instance, explain to me how a 100,000k per year licensing to do conversions is doing anything by lining the EPA's pockets?
Some universities that run a bus service used natural gas for them.
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. Actually, I enjoy learning about things like this. The problem with so many "alternate" power sources is that they don't require the development of just one new technology (say H2 production), they spin off into many more. I kinda wish I was a little younger, this would be an interesting field to work in. The possibilities are pretty exciting.
