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How sad that it would be ok for a partner to work 5 jobs (in essence never seeing his/ her family and risking his/her health) just so the other partner can 'stay home'. Seems kind of selfish to me.
I think that's up to the family to decide - they'd have their reasons for doing so.
I think the judgment that it is "sad" is your own, and not something that is fruitful in this context - much like others saying that a man that stays home is "wimpy" and "unmanly," and that women who choose to work are somehow to be a subject of scorn.
If that's how you feel, fine - keep it to yourself and to your family. But I'll be goddamned if we're going to keep perpetuating this bulls-t about proper gender roles based on nothing more than "tradition."
(That last two points were not directly addressed to you, mimimomx3, but "you" as a general audience, so please don't take them personally).
I think that's up to the family to decide - they'd have their reasons for doing so.
I think the judgment that it is "sad" is your own, and not something that is fruitful in this context - much like others saying that a man that stays home is "wimpy" and "unmanly," and that women who choose to work are somehow to be a subject of scorn.
If that's how you feel, fine - keep it to yourself and to your family. But I'll be goddamned if we're going to keep perpetuating this bulls-t about proper gender roles based on nothing more than "tradition."
(That last two points were not directly addressed to you, mimimomx3, but "you" as a general audience, so please don't take them personally).
This helps galvanize my argument. It is indeed fruity for a man to stay home while a woman puts on a Hillary Clinton pant-suit and manages a bank or runs a company. BTW, there are quite a few of us who laugh at both men and women who participate in this lunacy. In fact, just the other day I was in a bank and commented to the female manager how unattractive she looked trying to be a man. She had no argument, as she knew I was correct.
Aside from the troll; here is a recent survey done on this topic, participants were stay at home moms and working moms. They come to the same conclusion; it is impossible to "have it all". I can understand many families need both parents to work to survive. On the other hand, there are many women that do it to help the family keep up with the Joneses, get the bigger house, get the newer car. Few families save a lot of money, no matter how much they make. It mostly gets spent.
I personally do not think an excellent day care is an equivalent substitute to having my wife be there for my kids when they get home. As far as stay at home dads go, the trend is growing. I think we all need to wait another generation until the kids are grown up... to interview them and see how they all "came out" to determine whether the nurturing of a dad equals the nurturing of a mom. Too recent a phenomenon too judge just yet.
I personally think that considering the mom typically covers a "nurturing' role makes sense and is not a hollow stereotype. Women are not equivalent to men. (Note I did not say they are "not equal to men"...I said they are not equivalent.) Meaning there are innate differences in the way we think and perceive the world and react to situations. We should recognize and celebrate those differences, and use them to our advantage when bringing up our children.
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By Sharon Jayson, USA TODAY
Just when you thought the mommy wars were over, a new study shows the divide has grown over the past decade between employed and stay-at-home mothers.
But the study, released Thursday, also finds one area where both groups concur: Working full time is less appealing than it used to be.
The research, conducted by telephone this past spring by the Pew Research Center, compares the responses of 414 mothers of children under 18 with 457 mothers in 1997 who responded to a similar Pew survey.
Among working mothers, 60% now say part-time work is the ideal situation, compared with 48% in 1997. Among at-home moms, 48% say staying home is ideal, up from 39% in 1997.
Bureau of Labor Statistics data for 2006, released in May, show only 24% of working moms work part time.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: Mom | Pew | Pew Research Center
Pew surveyed a total of 2,020 men and women in 2007 about the societal impact of increasing numbers of mothers of young children working: 41% thought it was a bad thing, 32% said it made no difference, and 22% said it was a good thing.
Ten years ago, 38% of at-home moms and 39% of working moms said it was a bad trend. Now, 44% of at-home mothers believe it's bad, while working mothers who believe it's a good trend jumped from 19% in 1997 to 34% today. But 34% of working mothers still believe it's bad.
"There's so much finger-pointing going on and that has to do with the guilt and the self-justification of the choices they make," says Rachel Hamman, author of the 2006 book Bye-Bye Boardroom, about the choice to stay home.
"Working moms are trying to stand their ground, as are stay-at-home moms. Sacrifices are made at both ends," she says. "Working in the home or outside the home, there are things you give up."
Researchers say a combination of relatively new factors has intensified the split, including the trend toward "intensive parenting" at the same time employers are demanding more of workers. And, they say, mommy blogs contribute to these deeply entrenched feelings.
"All of these things are putting women in particular into a kind of all-or-nothing situation. It's kind of forcing a polarization," says Pamela Stone, an associate professor of sociology at Hunter College in New York and author of Opting Out? Why Women Really Quit Careers and Head Home. Released in May, the book is based on interviews with women who left the workplace; it suggests they had little choice but to leave because of increasing work demands and policies that were not conducive to families.
Anchorless--Allow me to enlighten you: Those of us who differ from your opinion are not wrong. We simply hold opposite points of views. Also, this is a forum where people come to learn and express their positions and thoughts about various subjects. It's totally inappropriate for you to tell anyone to keep their thoughts and opinions to themself. If hearing opinions of those who differ from the way you think is so upsetting to you, perhaps you shouldn't read further.
PS Yes I value tradition and look at what all of millenia has done heretofore for guidance with the present and the future. Nothing wrong with that, imo.
Anchorless--Allow me to enlighten you: Those of us who differ from your opinion are not wrong. We simply hold opposite points of views. Also, this is a forum where people come to learn and express their positions and thoughts about various subjects. It's totally inappropriate for you to tell anyone to keep their thoughts and opinions to themself. If hearing opinions of those who differ from the way you think is so upsetting to you, perhaps you shouldn't read further.
PS Yes I value tradition and look at what all of millenia has done heretofore for guidance with the present and the future. Nothing wrong with that, imo.
If you go back and actually read my post, I stated that I have no problem with you holding those values and having that point of view - I do have a serious problem with you casting categorical judgment as to what men and women are and are supposed to be.
Because quite simply, you're wrong. And please note that your being wrong doesn't preclude you from being right as to how you value men and women.
You can think that you value a man who works a lot to support his family, so that a woman can stay home and be a housewife, while at the same time being wrong about that being the proper roles for men and women.
This helps galvanize my argument. It is indeed fruity for a man to stay home while a woman puts on a Hillary Clinton pant-suit and manages a bank or runs a company. BTW, there are quite a few of us who laugh at both men and women who participate in this lunacy. In fact, just the other day I was in a bank and commented to the female manager how unattractive she looked trying to be a man. She had no argument, as she knew I was correct.
Let me rephrase what I originally posted - this is senseless garbage, and you're just trolling for reactions.
If you go back and actually read my post, I stated that I have no problem with you holding those values and having that point of view - I do have a serious problem with you casting categorical judgment as to what men and women are and are supposed to be.
Because quite simply, you're wrong. And please note that your being wrong doesn't preclude you from being right as to how you value men and women.
You can think that you value a man who works a lot to support his family, so that a woman can stay home and be a housewife, while at the same time being wrong about that being the proper roles for men and women.
Or better put anchorless, quite simply you think she is wrong. Maybe she has a valid point that you personally disagree with. Cool, no problem.
This helps galvanize my argument. It is indeed fruity for a man to stay home while a woman puts on a Hillary Clinton pant-suit and manages a bank or runs a company. BTW, there are quite a few of us who laugh at both men and women who participate in this lunacy. In fact, just the other day I was in a bank and commented to the female manager how unattractive she looked trying to be a man. She had no argument, as she knew I was correct.
How large a depositor are you?---Remember, Jed Clampett was given considerable latitude by HIS banker, too....
Perhaps... but it seems like if one person is working 5 jobs and the other one is not working any, that perhaps they should both share the 'job' load so that each can spend some a little time with their children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorless
I think that's up to the family to decide - they'd have their reasons for doing so.
I think the judgment that it is "sad" is your own, and not something that is fruitful in this context - much like others saying that a man that stays home is "wimpy" and "unmanly," and that women who choose to work are somehow to be a subject of scorn.
If that's how you feel, fine - keep it to yourself and to your family. But I'll be goddamned if we're going to keep perpetuating this bulls-t about proper gender roles based on nothing more than "tradition."
(That last two points were not directly addressed to you, mimimomx3, but "you" as a general audience, so please don't take them personally).
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