Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 11-24-2019, 10:26 AM
 
1,251 posts, read 1,071,322 times
Reputation: 2315

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tillman7 View Post
Reading is fundamental,the key word was usually!
Perhaps you should read more carefully yourself. I used the word “general” which means to speak of something “loosely or usually”. I also said “most”, which means “ to a great degree”.
I prefer to not mince words with you and I am sorry if it seemed that way.

 
Old 11-24-2019, 11:37 AM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,664 posts, read 6,369,408 times
Reputation: 13127
I don't know that the word "lazier" applies; government work is less less subject to a profit motive.
 
Old 11-24-2019, 01:56 PM
 
19,394 posts, read 6,445,631 times
Reputation: 12309
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
Living in the Baltimore/Washington corridor, I know quite a few people who are Federal Government employees. The recurring theme I hear from them is that in any given office of 8 people, 1 will do most of the work, while the others spend their time trying to avoid work, filing complaints, "working" from home, etc.


My sister, while not a government employee, was hired as a contractor to oversee the software development of a very large, very visible Federal Government website and back end. She has spent the majority of her career in the commercial world, so she was totally unprepared for the dumpster fire that is the federal government. After 1 week, she came home from work practically in tears at the incredible lack of initiative shown by many Federal employees and the lengths they would go to in order to avoid doing any actual work.
I also live in the Baltimore/Washington corridor and worked for the government for ONE year. I couldn't stand it. The level of wasted resources was unreal, and there were double the number of people in my department necessary for it to function smoothly. There was a lot of "make-work" work just to while away the time until 5 p.m. came. (And you should have seen it.....people "started getting ready to leave for the day" at 4:40 p.m., which meant get their coat out of the closet.) Anyone who showed initiative was actively discouraged since, as I was told, word-for-word, "it makes the rest of us look bad."


I left for a comparable position in the private industry, at a slightly lower salary (-4%), with worse benefits, and, of course, no job security. People said I was stupid to give up a cushy job from which I could never be fired. But....in the private job, I got to actually CONTRIBUTE using honed job skills (talents, if I do say so myself!), and I felt rewarded as I drove home every evening after an honest day's work. The initiative I had that was discouraged in the govt job was valued in the private job, and within six months I got an increase that moved me back to the government salary.
 
Old 11-24-2019, 01:58 PM
 
19,394 posts, read 6,445,631 times
Reputation: 12309
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
I don't know that the word "lazier" applies; government work is less less subject to a profit motive.
The profit motive isn't what accounts for the lack of drive and work ethics. It's the cradle-to-grave job security. I came across people, in the same GS-12 position for 25 years, earning in the six-figures, who wouldn't have lasted a month in private industry, and at half the pay.

Reminds me of a joke: "How many people work in your agency?" "Oh, about half of them."
 
Old 11-24-2019, 02:00 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 1,274,243 times
Reputation: 2731
...and in other news 2 + 2 = 4.
 
Old 11-24-2019, 02:11 PM
 
Location: USA
2,111 posts, read 2,586,611 times
Reputation: 1636
From my experiences GS-14's and higher always had stuff going on, they did get a lot of work in. Now federal employees ranked lower, well each department was different. Generally contractors always had more work to do than the government employees in our departments. One thing is many of them did not have work to do in the first place, can't call them all lazy for that. It is true that it is much easier to fire a contractor than a government employee, it is something that was emphasized early on when I started out as a contractor.
 
Old 11-24-2019, 02:32 PM
509
 
6,312 posts, read 6,958,914 times
Reputation: 9422
Having worked in both private and the Federal government here are my observations.....

Federal government underpays the highly educated and professional employees and overpays the clerical and labor workers.

In rural areas, Federal employees tend to be the more highly paid jobs and as a result they have "smarter" and more dedicated people working for them. I never understood why the postal service had such a bad reputation, but then again I have lived in mostly rural areas for a good part of my life. I suspect in urban areas, there is frustration and movement of good employees out of Federal employment just be of the rules.....see below.

Likewise, there are jobs that ONLY the Federal government has openings. Jobs like astronaut, Navy Seal, fighter pilot, Park Ranger, Ebola scientists and so on. Those employees tend to be in it for the job and not the money.

The most frustrating part about being a Federal employee is really the laws that Congress passes, and court interpretation of those rules and regulations. It isn't the employees as it is the rules!!!

True story. I was overseeing the moving of a small Federal campground for endangered fish. It took over three years and 180,000 dollars of taxpayers money just to complete the Endangered Species Act paperwork for what everybody thought was a good and non-controversial project!!

Same agency. I am working at my desk at 3:00 pm and get a call about a large wildfire about 60 miles from town. I got the job of organizing the equipment and firefighters and their immediate dispatch to the fire.

Equipment and personnel started arriving after dark in fairly large numbers. Pretty much had to set up a campground, office, and catering services for 500 people overnight. I had breakfast in my "new campground" at 8:00 am and drove back to the office.

Same agency, same Federal employees. On one hand it took three years just to get permission to build a small campground and in the other case a fully functioning camp, office, and catering service for 500 people overnight.

I retired as soon as I was eligible. Loved my job. Didn't like the paperwork, the delays, the political games, the affirmative action policies, and so on.....

And that is the rub. Congress like passing laws to get votes. It all looks good on paper and then the Federal employees have to sort it out. That is no fun.

The problem isn't the Federal workforce. The problem is Congress.
 
Old 11-24-2019, 02:39 PM
 
19,394 posts, read 6,445,631 times
Reputation: 12309
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Having worked in both private and the Federal government here are my observations.....

Federal government underpays the highly educated and professional employees and overpays the clerical and labor workers.

In rural areas, Federal employees tend to be the more highly paid jobs and as a result they have "smarter" and more dedicated people working for them. I never understood why the postal service had such a bad reputation, but then again I have lived in mostly rural areas for a good part of my life. I suspect in urban areas, there is frustration and movement of good employees out of Federal employment just be of the rules.....see below.

Likewise, there are jobs that ONLY the Federal government has openings. Jobs like astronaut, Navy Seal, fighter pilot, Park Ranger, Ebola scientists and so on. Those employees tend to be in it for the job and not the money.

https://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Red-Zo...AMBK833RF3FNQA

There are a few stories of Federal employees in this book. Covers both sides of Federal employment the good and bad, but it is just a very minor subset of the book.

The most frustrating part about being a Federal employee is really the laws that Congress passes, and court interpretation of those rules and regulations. It isn't the employees as it is the rules!!!

True story. I was overseeing the moving of a small Federal campground for endangered fish. It took over three years and 180,000 dollars of taxpayers money just to complete the Endangered Species Act paperwork for what everybody thought was a good and non-controversial project!!

Same agency. I am working at my desk at 3:00 pm and get a call about a large wildfire about 60 miles from town. I got the job of organizing the equipment and firefighters and their immediate dispatch to the fire.

Equipment and personnel started arriving after dark in fairly large numbers. Pretty much had to set up a campground, office, and catering services for 500 people overnight. I had breakfast in my "new campground" at 8:00 am and drove back to the office.

Same agency, same Federal employees. On one hand it took three years just to get permission to build a small campground and in the other case a fully functioning camp, office, and catering service for 500 people overnight.

I retired as soon as I was eligible. Loved my job. Didn't like the paperwork, the delays, the political games, the affirmative action policies, and so on.....

And that is the rub. Congress like passing laws to get votes. It all looks good on paper and then the Federal employees have to sort it out. That is no fun.

The problem isn't the Federal workforce. The problem is Congress.
Yes, the bolded is exactly correct. It is only when you move into the upper-echelon (GS-15s in charge of departments, SES service, etc.) that government workers are underpaid. Among the lower- and mid-level, they are paid very well compared to private. Those with high school and college degrees earn more, and those with advanced professional degrees earn less.

(It's pretty rare to find a high school graduate with very basic duties - proofreading, entering OTHER people's work into a computer, coordinating mail packages, etc. - earning $80,000 and $90,000 in the private industry, but basically anyone marginal person who has worked for the government long enough will eventually work up to a GS 11/12. (It's at the 13 that it starts getting competitive.)
 
Old 11-24-2019, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Virginia
10,050 posts, read 6,331,774 times
Reputation: 27515
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
as defined benefit pensions have become scarce, government jobs look more appealing to many. Plus you can carry your federal health insurance benefit over into retirement.
While that's true, it's still not free. In fact, it's not even very cheap.
 
Old 11-24-2019, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Virginia
10,050 posts, read 6,331,774 times
Reputation: 27515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
I also live in the Baltimore/Washington corridor and worked for the government for ONE year. I couldn't stand it. The level of wasted resources was unreal, and there were double the number of people in my department necessary for it to function smoothly. There was a lot of "make-work" work just to while away the time until 5 p.m. came. (And you should have seen it.....people "started getting ready to leave for the day" at 4:40 p.m., which meant get their coat out of the closet.) Anyone who showed initiative was actively discouraged since, as I was told, word-for-word, "it makes the rest of us look bad."


I left for a comparable position in the private industry, at a slightly lower salary (-4%), with worse benefits, and, of course, no job security. People said I was stupid to give up a cushy job from which I could never be fired. But....in the private job, I got to actually CONTRIBUTE using honed job skills (talents, if I do say so myself!), and I felt rewarded as I drove home every evening after an honest day's work. The initiative I had that was discouraged in the govt job was valued in the private job, and within six months I got an increase that moved me back to the government salary.
Well, it's a shame you couldn't stand it for more than a year.. I spent more than 22 years working for the Navy and can tell you that I never met a more hard-working, dedicated group of people in my life (and I was in private industry for 8 years prior to entering government service). The people I worked with supported mission critical space operations, and were some brilliant people to boot. A few of them helped design the original space "Fence" that tracked every object that orbited the earth. Our entire command had a great mission and great people, but it was no "cushy" place. Heck, I did a lot of physical work when I ran the environmental program (our radar sites were all at the back of beyond). I had to begin my Fed career as a GS-3 temporary receptionist even though I had a BA, just to get on board at the local base. However, I worked my way through several professional series up to a GS-13 Inspector General, so I was able to use all my previous experience and skills. For me, working for the Feds was both a challenge and a privilege. There are dedicated Federal employees working still today - they're just too busy to brag.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top