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Old 04-09-2012, 12:31 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,975,677 times
Reputation: 15038

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I'd agree with that 100%,
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
It's just common sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynternight View Post
This has been known (and commented upon) in the medical community for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
We make sure our dogs lick our baby once a day for good measure.
Bravo! We always held to this idea. Let Them Eat Dirt!

Quote:
Lol...honestly, the only germs I am worried about for him are people germs.
The only germs I worry about are the germs my kid picked up from other kids. I've never been more sick more often than when she went to day care.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:40 PM
 
5,524 posts, read 9,924,631 times
Reputation: 1867
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
What disturbs me most are the number of people (men in my case) who walk out of the bathroom without washing their hands. It happens ALL the time. By my guesstimation and random observation, i'd say 3 out of 10 men.

After I wash my hands, I use the paper towel to touch the door handle. If there's no trash can nearby the door, the paper towel goes on the floor. Not my problem. I'm not touching other people's parts. Those are not germs that children should be exposed to. Otherwise, i'm all for letting Little Jimmy get dirty.
After referencing bathroom hygiene that last sentence can take on a few meanings.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:56 PM
 
17,468 posts, read 12,907,338 times
Reputation: 6763
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post

The only germs I worry about are the germs my kid picked up from other kids. I've never been more sick more often than when she went to day care.
Most defiantly agree here. If you've ever worked at a daycare you'd know why
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:12 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,529 posts, read 34,259,842 times
Reputation: 29171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I should just ignore you.
probably. you just get more frustrated every time you step in it deeper, and go on accusing me of things that didn't happen, like criticizing your grammar or vocabulary..

Quote:
However, no, the sample size of one in the 13 year old article did not have a diagnosed case of polio. She was immunocompromised and received an oral polio vaccine (live virus) two days earlier. The treatment was an attempt to clear the virus out of her system before she got polio. She should not have received that vaccine. One of the few.
wait.. so active, infectious poliovirus was isolated from her cerebrospinal fluid, but she didn't have the disease?

how very odd.

Quote:
Well, you're right about a few things.
everything, so far...

Quote:
I would want to know how large a sample size (certainly more than one who wasn't even sick!) and some of the other issues you raise.

Your first polio article says in its title "POTENTIAL" use of antiviral agents in polio eradication, and was written in 1988, a mere 24 years ago. That is not the current policy, so it must not have worked.

The other polio article is from 2008, and discusses an antiviral that is a whopping 50% effective.

you mean the 'not-even-sick' girl who had viable, neurovirulent poliovirus strain furiously replicating in her cerebrospinal fluid? that girl?

how do virus load reductions ranging from 10,000- to more than 1,000,000-fold equate to 50% effectiveness?

"Virus multiplication was reduced by 104.0-fold, 106.2-fold and 106.6-fold for poliovirus type 1, type 2 and type 3, respectively."

methinks you have no idea what EC50 means.

Quote:
The current polio eradication strategy is mass immunization.
i know. it's the best strategy available.
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post



Do these kids looked worried about vaccines!!

Do vaccines have dirt in them............. can't seem to see the connection between the two
Just the germs in the dirt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
Most defiantly agree here. If you've ever worked at a daycare you'd know why
My daughter worked at a daycare, and she was sick frequently. (Was going to say "all the time" but then someone would come on and say, 'you're exaggerating; she couldn't have been working if she was always sick, blah, blah'). Anyway, she was sick a lot. She complained about how people would bring in kids and say stuff like 'he had a fever last night, but he seems fine now', and then in two hours the day care would be calling the parents b/c the kid had a temp of 105! I work in a pediatric office and we get calls from people frequently (like all the time, LOL) saying, 'my kid got sent home from day care with a fever; he had a temp last night but seemed fine when it was time to go this morning, blah, blah'. Now I know some of these parents are desparate to get to work b/c they don't have much sick time themselves, etc. but it's a jungle in these day cares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
probably. you just get more frustrated every time you step in it deeper, and go on accusing me of things that didn't happen, like criticizing your grammar or vocabulary..



wait.. so active, infectious poliovirus was isolated from her cerebrospinal fluid, but she didn't have the disease?

how very odd.



everything, so far...




you mean the 'not-even-sick' girl who had viable, neurovirulent poliovirus strain furiously replicating in her cerebrospinal fluid? that girl?

how do virus load reductions ranging from 10,000- to more than 1,000,000-fold equate to 50% effectiveness?

"Virus multiplication was reduced by 104.0-fold, 106.2-fold and 106.6-fold for poliovirus type 1, type 2 and type 3, respectively."

methinks you have no idea what EC50 means.



i know. it's the best strategy available.
The sample size of one in the story about using an antiviral on polio virus, as I explained earlier, as I actually read the article, was an immunocompromised child (had SCID) who was given a dose of live oral polio vaccine two days earlier. I guess I have to walk you through this. Live polio vaccine is capable of causing polio in rare instances, especially in immunocompromised people. (link already posted) So the docs were trying to kill the polio virus given to this child (total sample of the article) before she got polio disease. As you surely know, most polio infections are asymptomatic.

OK, you got me on that last one; I read it too fast. However, it was still experimental and I think it still is.

Here is a 2006 article that says
"However, no promising compounds for treatment of poliovirus have been developed due to the efficacy of the vaccines in use. Broad-spectrum inhibitors developed for other picornavirus may be useful for poliovirus infections."
Current status of anti-picornavirus therapies. [Curr Pharm Des. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

Another 2008 article:

Medscape: Medscape Access
For picornaviruses (enteroviruses [polio, Coxsackie A and B and echo]) no single antiviral drug has ever been approved, although pleconaril was once to be considered for this purpose.

Now if something has come up in the last four years, I'd be happy to hear about it. All of our patients would probably quit immunizing immediately and say they'd just treat their kids if they got polio if this drug were on the market.

I'd insult you, but I'd be the one who gets the infration, not you for all your insults.
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:18 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,529 posts, read 34,259,842 times
Reputation: 29171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The sample size of one in the story about using an antiviral on polio virus, as I explained earlier, as I actually read the article, was an immunocompromised child (had SCID) who was given a dose of live oral polio vaccine two days earlier. I guess I have to walk you through this. Live polio vaccine is capable of causing polio in rare instances, especially in immunocompromised people. (link already posted) So the docs were trying to kill the polio virus given to this child (total sample of the article) before she got polio disease. As you surely know, most polio infections are asymptomatic.
if you had actually read the paper, as you claim, why is it that you continually ignore the facts that

a) they detected a neurovirulent poliovirus strain in her CSF by RT-PCR;
b) this was further confirmed by isolating viable, replicating poliovirus in vitro;
c) CSF and serum cultures were negative for the presence of poliovirus by day 6;
d)CSF and serum were negative by PCR by day 14

?

in other words - in what alternate universe are RT-PCR and positive cultures from CSF and serum NOT considered diagnostic for poliovirus infection?

Quote:
OK, you got me on that last one; I read it too fast. However, it was still experimental and I think it still is.

Here is a 2006 article that says
"However, no promising compounds for treatment of poliovirus have been developed due to the efficacy of the vaccines in use. Broad-spectrum inhibitors developed for other picornavirus may be useful for poliovirus infections."
Current status of anti-picornavirus therapies. [Curr Pharm Des. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

Another 2008 article:

Medscape: Medscape Access
For picornaviruses (enteroviruses [polio, Coxsackie A and B and echo]) no single antiviral drug has ever been approved, although pleconaril was once to be considered for this purpose.

Now if something has come up in the last four years, I'd be happy to hear about it. All of our patients would probably quit immunizing immediately and say they'd just treat their kids if they got polio if this drug were on the market.
experimental or not is immaterial. don't you even remember what started this conversation in the first place?

refresher #3 [or possibly 4]:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
There is no treatment for any of the viral diseases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Do you know of any antivirals for polio?


Quote:
I'd insult you, but I'd be the one who gets the infration, not you for all your insults.
all what insults?

great googly-moogly, aren't you the delicate flower!

first you accused me of criticizing your grammar, which never happened.

next, you changed your mind and accused me of criticizing your vocabulary - which likewise never happened.

now, you whine about 'all [my] insults' - which likewise never happened.

i am more convinced than ever that this:

Quote:
you seem to have some kind of inner need to feel like you're being mistreated
sums you up to perfection.

here's a hint: just because you're getting pasted in an argument does not mean you are being insulted.
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