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Old 09-14-2007, 11:12 PM
 
11,133 posts, read 13,414,808 times
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The term "Infidel" refers to those who don't believe in God, Allah, Yahweh. (all the same God) However, through the perverse usage to suit each extremist point of view it has come to no longer mean one who don't believe in God but "non-Muslim" or "non-Christian"

Again, I don't give a damn who spews religious extremist zealotry, it can be spun to infect weak minds to commit the worst of acts of human butchery imaginable. Just because there hasn't been any Christians flying airplanes into the Dubai towers does not mean Christian zealots don't walk among us, just ask Bush.
This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.
-- George W Bush, using a loaded term which recalls the Christians' Medieval wars against Muslims in the so-called Holy Land, after stepping off the presidential helicopter on Sunday, September 16, 2001, quoted from Jonathan Lyons, "Bush enters Mideast's rhetorical minefield " (Reuters: September 21, 2001).

(where was the Christian right damning this quote?)

Sadly, those Christians who actually practice the tenets of the Christian faith are overshadowed by the nut job fringe from their group, just as the Muslims are.

First used in Middle English circa 1460 (adjective, noun), from the Middle French infidèle, and from Latin infidelis "unfaithful," later "unbelieving," In the 15c. meaning "a non-Christian" (especially a Saracen); later "one who does not believe in religion" (1526). Also used to translate Arabic kafir, from a root meaning "to disbelieve, to deny," strictly referring to all non-Muslims but virtually synonymous with "Christian"; hence, from a Muslim or Jewish point of view, "a Christian"

Last edited by TnHilltopper; 09-14-2007 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:40 PM
 
101 posts, read 242,843 times
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Just noticed something funny: If the Hamas legislator calls Jews brothers of "apes and pigs", one has to ask, who are the Jews brothers of (as a religious group). The answer would be Christians or Muslims, since they are Abhrahamic religions too. Now, obviously, Muslims cannot be pigs because of the negative way they look at poor-porky, we on the other hand love spam! So, that leaves us with apes. What do I conclude from this analysis Dr. Watson?
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:51 PM
 
11,133 posts, read 13,414,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
And there's no such thing as a muslim nation with a happy, safe, protected "minority" religion in its midst. In fact, there's really no comparing the close ties between religion and secular society in the muslim world with anywhere in the west.
I would suggest you read about the 80,000 Jews who live inside Iran and have refused to make Aliyah to Israel despite the efforts of Israel to have them return.

The Jewish community of Persia, modern-day Iran, is one of the oldest in the Diaspora, and its historical roots reach back to the 6th century B.C.E., the time of the First Temple. Their history in the pre-Islamic period is intertwined with that of the Jews of neighboring Babylon. Cyrus, the first of the Archemid dynasty, conquered Babylon in 539 B.C.E. and permitted the Jewish exiles to return to the Land of Israel, bringing the First Exile to an end. The Jewish colonies were scattered from centers in Babylon to Persian provinces and cities such as Hamadan and Susa. The books of Esther, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel give a favorable description of the relationship of the Jews to the court of the Achaemids at Susa.

Jews of Iran
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Old 09-15-2007, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Maple Valley, WA
982 posts, read 3,144,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I don't know about the US, but yes, I am becoming Islamophobic--and I don't like feling this way. It's just that the case for "a religion of peace" is so convoluted, and the case for a "bloodthirsty, violent creed" is so convincing, that common sense just keeps kicking in, much as I try to fight it.

I've read up on Islam, even took a course in "world religions" some time ago, and it seems that Islam is the only religion in which extensive, long-winded explanations are needed to explain to "us" that "Islam isn't REALLY bloodthirsty, vengeful, violent, or misogynistic...that's just the way you SEE it". Well, perhaps so---I've also got my own ideas about child molesters and murderers and wife-beaters, as well---and it takes a lot of 'verbage' to explain THEIR positions to me, too.

I happened upon a very interesting radio interview some months ago, purely by chance. An author was being interviewed who had the decidedly unorthodox view that "The Simpsons",(a cartoon TV show) obviously coarse, vulgar, and irreverent, actually gave religion a 'voice' (!).-unlike almost any other cartoon show, where religion is never mentioned at all.
The author went on to explain that his two little daughters had wanted to watch the show, pleading with "dad" until he finally agreed--they could watch it, but only with him-

He was amazed, as the weeks went by, that "The Simpsons" actually went out of its way to mention religion--in an irreverent way, of course, but mentioned it nonetheless. "Bart" sometimes 'said his prayers' when he was in trouble. Homer sometimes attended Church, and so did Mom. A neighbor's daughter had converted to Buddhism, and that was addressed. There was even a stereotypical old Jew who "acted Jewish" (and comical)--yet, a Rabbi who conferred with the show's writers could see nothing overtly offensive. Same thing with the Catholics, and their rosaries and crucifixes--unflattering sterotypes, perhaps, but the show wasn't really "anti-Catholic", nor was there any serious problem with the 'bible-thumper' characters.

You probably guessed the rest. Yes, at the end of the interview, someone inquired "What about Muslims ? Are there any Muslim characters?" An uncomfortable pause was followed by the admission that no, to the author's knowledge, "The Simpsons" had never shown an overtly "muslim" character, either flattering or unflattering. It was suggested that perhaps, at a future date, some "muslim scholar" might be consulted to introduce such a character--but it didn't sound too convincing.

At the end of the interview, one was left with the inescapable feeling that perhaps the show's writers and producers simply wanted to 'have fun', and weren't particularly interested in spending the rest of their lives in hiding. Perhaps they thought of the fate Salman Rushdie--or the 'Danish Cartoon' debacle. I don't know, and they didn't say it--and I'm not even a "Simpsons" fan. But the interview didn't make me feel any better about Islam. There's just something about that group, I think, that's totally incompatible with living in a free and open society, and I see VERY little evidence to refute this statement, Frankly, they 'scare' me, and I guess that makes me 'phobic'. Wish I could be sure that I'm wrong.....
macmeal - you must check out South Park. They were going to show a cartoon of Mohammed (shortly after the Danish cartoons came out), but Comedy Central shut it down and wouldn't let them. That is a show that will parody religion (and current events) without shame. You should see the episode they did on Scientology. Matt Stone and Trey Parker (creators of South Park) made a movie with marionettes - Team America - about the war on terrorists. They had Kim Jong Il as another bad guy, selling WMD's to the terrorists. They didn't hold much back.
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Old 09-15-2007, 02:55 AM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,498 posts, read 4,624,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willys View Post
From the Hamas TV channel Al Aqsa TV, Palestinian Legislative Council Speaker Ahmad Bahr refers to Jews as “brothers of apes and pigs,” and calls for Israel to be wiped out.

On the other hand,from the U.N. ...


Is the U.S., as a nation, becoming Islamophobic? Are you? Does anyone care? Is Israel using heavy-handed tactics to control the world, or its markets?
Are you surprised? Islam is a religion of hatred, violence against women, and intolerance. Not to mention, pedophilia. Mohammed sexually molested a 9-year old girl when he was a grown man already. This is not my opinion, it is a documented fact! Think Islam is about peace?!? HAH!! If you do, you are buying into the Bush/UN sham, trying to say Islam is about peace. It is NOT.

Israel has a right to defend itself against Islamists and terrorists as everyone in the USA has the right to defend themselves against the same threats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
The term "Infidel" refers to those who don't believe in God, Allah, Yahweh. (all the same God) However, through the perverse usage to suit each extremist point of view it has come to no longer mean one who don't believe in God but "non-Muslim" or "non-Christian"
Please do not make such a terrible statement. It is NOT the same God. Allah = Allah. God = the same for Jews and Christians. The Christian and Jewish God is not telling His followers to blow up little kids playing in a park. Allah is telling Muslims to brutalize women and murder anyone whom disagrees with its hateful teachings. Do not confused God (which is called Yahweh - same as God because Jews were afraid to use God's name in vain) with the fake god Allah, whom condones mass murder so Muslims can enjoy 70 virgins. Please, even the reward for doing good in islam is perverted!!

So let's try to keep this in prospective. God not the same as Allah.
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Old 09-15-2007, 08:54 AM
 
11,133 posts, read 13,414,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana-Guy View Post
Please do not make such a terrible statement. It is NOT the same God. Allah = Allah. God = the same for Jews and Christians. The Christian and Jewish God is not telling His followers to blow up little kids playing in a park. Allah is telling Muslims to brutalize women and murder anyone whom disagrees with its hateful teachings. Do not confused God (which is called Yahweh - same as God because Jews were afraid to use God's name in vain) with the fake god Allah, whom condones mass murder so Muslims can enjoy 70 virgins. Please, even the reward for doing good in islam is perverted!!

So let's try to keep this in prospective. God not the same as Allah.

Well there Zippy, yes it is in fact the same god your church has taught you to hate. Try reading one of those books you burn instead of acting EXACTLY like those you so despise.

You see there Nirvana guy, I started out in college as a theology major, devoting my life to the church, studying the scriptures and later becoming a minister. One thing I have found is that while the large segment of religious peoples find quiet solace and deep spirituality in their faith, it is the fringe nut jobs that are jumping up and down pointing fingers as those dissimilar to them preaching hate that get all the attention. Wasn't David Koresh preaching premillennial dispensationalism to his followers?

Here nor there, those religious extremist jumping up and down are the ones that other religious extremist jumping up and down point to when they justify the slaughter of their fellow man. Just as you claim that Allah does not refer to God, so too does Johnny Jihad point out that you must be an infidel, both of you twisting truth to fit your hate.
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Old 09-15-2007, 10:56 AM
 
8,974 posts, read 15,676,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I would suggest you read about the 80,000 Jews who live inside Iran and have refused to make Aliyah to Israel despite the efforts of Israel to have them return.

The Jewish community of Persia, modern-day Iran, is one of the oldest in the Diaspora, and its historical roots reach back to the 6th century B.C.E., the time of the First Temple. Their history in the pre-Islamic period is intertwined with that of the Jews of neighboring Babylon. Cyrus, the first of the Archemid dynasty, conquered Babylon in 539 B.C.E. and permitted the Jewish exiles to return to the Land of Israel, bringing the First Exile to an end. The Jewish colonies were scattered from centers in Babylon to Persian provinces and cities such as Hamadan and Susa. The books of Esther, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel give a favorable description of the relationship of the Jews to the court of the Achaemids at Susa.

Jews of Iran
Admittedly I might have gone a tiny bit "over the line" (but just a TINY bit)---I believe Malaysia, as well, does have a fair amount of religious tolerance. Still, I stand by what I said---in Iran, a nation of 70 million people, an unassimilated group of 80,000 is hardly a number to "brag about" as an example of "tolerance". Undoubtedly there are a few KKK members who have secretly entered into interracial marriages---yet I don't think anyone would seriously hold up the "klan" as an example of tolerance. And certainly there is no example anywhere in Islam even faintly approaching the level of tolerance found in even the most mediocre "western" naton.
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:05 AM
 
8,974 posts, read 15,676,830 times
Reputation: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana-Guy View Post

Please do not make such a terrible statement. It is NOT the same God. Allah = Allah. God = the same for Jews and Christians. The Christian and Jewish God is not telling His followers to blow up little kids playing in a park. Allah is telling Muslims to brutalize women and murder anyone whom disagrees with its hateful teachings. Do not confused God (which is called Yahweh - same as God because Jews were afraid to use God's name in vain) with the fake god Allah, whom condones mass murder so Muslims can enjoy 70 virgins. Please, even the reward for doing good in islam is perverted!!

So let's try to keep this in prospective. God not the same as Allah.
So. other than the minor points you mention above, what exactly is your "gripe" against Islam ?
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:33 AM
 
Location: SanAnFortWAbiHoustoDalCentral, Texas
791 posts, read 2,108,930 times
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Al-Qaida: Bounty on Swedish cartoonist (broken link)
Quote:
CAIRO, Egypt - The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq offered money for the murder of a Swedish cartoonist and his editor who recently produced images deemed insulting to Islam, according to a statement carried by Islamist Web sites Saturday.
-
"We are calling for the assassination of cartoonist Lars Vilks who dared insult our Prophet, peace be upon him, and we announce a reward during this generous month of Ramadan of $100,000 for the one who kills this criminal," the transcript on the Web site said.
-
The al-Qaida leader upped the reward for Vilks' death to $150,000 if he was "slaughtered like a lamb" and offered $50,000 for the killing of the editor of Nerikes Allehanda, the Swedish paper that printed Vilks' cartoon of the Prophet Muhammad with a dog's body on Aug. 19.
Quote:
"We have a real problem here," Vilks told The Associated Press by telephone. "We can only hope that Muslims in Europe and in the Western world choose to distance themselves from this and support the idea of freedom of expression."
I hope someone will point that out when it happens.
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
13,806 posts, read 27,811,201 times
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Theo doesn't think it's a religion of peace either... well, if he was alive he wouldn't..

The excuse makers seriously need to do some more research into what they're defending..

BTW, I'm atheist
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