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Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,406,723 times
Reputation: 2394
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude
There was no lunar shift last year.
Did you look at the first article I linked? The report is correct. Tycho is no longer visible at the 5:30 position, but now its roughly at the 3:30 position. It is not supposed to change. What we've seen has been constant for as long as we have had maps of the surface of the moon.
There is a large body of work on the magnetic fields of the moon, but a good and easy reference is the wiki entry that references some of these works (including one by NASA). It even has a magnetic field map on it.
As for additional links to prove the possibilities - I did this during some down time at work and really don't have time to do a more thorough thesis (even though I'm really into this and have been trying to read up inbetween the work that comes in). The point of this is just speculatory and fodder for discussion. Regardless of the reasons for the moon slightly shifting, it has and THAT is pretty darn cool.
I know about it, including the recent mapping on the "dark side". There are still magnetic poles, just don't assume them, or the magnetic field as a whole to be anything like that of the earth.
Anything can be deemed speculation. I could say the earth and moon have moved closer because I saw a larger moon recently. But we know that it isn't true. When we make an attempt to tie Science and such baseless speculations together, we don't get anywhere but rely entirely on on a speculation based belief system.
The problem I have with your OP is that you created a gumbo with ideas and threw them together while quoting Science and NASA on top. It also came across as yet another excuse to deny human influence on climate change (which, I believe to be the primary target of this thread).
Did you know that earth indeed has a polar shift due to a wobble? We have known that for over a century. And that shift is separate from magnetic shift, which also has been an ongoing process. It didn't start recently. And that is not why we see heat islands on the map or have people wear breathing masks in cities like Beijing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82
Did you look at the first article I linked? The report is correct. Tycho is no longer visible at the 5:30 position, but now its roughly at the 3:30 position. It is not supposed to change. What we've seen has been constant for as long as we have had maps of the surface of the moon.
Ask your son to think about why we see approximately 53% of the moon over a long period of time (not 50%). Hint: Its not "a shift" of anything, but perception of a shift.
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 04-11-2012 at 08:51 AM..
Yes I did. The article is stupid. Your next sentence demonstrates why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg8
Tycho is no longer visible at the 5:30 position, but now its roughly at the 3:30 position.
Tycho is where it has always been. It has not moved.
Depending at the point in which the moon is observed as it traverses the sky, the "clock orientation" of features on its surface changes relative to an observer standing on the earth. The same effect can be seen with Constellations like Orion, Pegasus and Ursa Major.
This "shift" occurs every night. It has occurred every night for the entire history of the earth-moon system. It will reoccur every night until they no longer exist,
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,406,723 times
Reputation: 2394
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
I know about it, including the recent mapping on the "dark side". There are still magnetic poles, just don't assume them, or the magnetic field as a whole to be anything like that of the earth.
Anything can be deemed speculation. I could say the earth and moon have moved closer because I saw a larger moon recently. But we know that it isn't true. When we make an attempt to tie Science and such baseless speculations together, we don't get anywhere but rely entirely on on a speculation based belief system.
The problem I have with your OP is that you created a gumbo with ideas and threw them together while quoting Science and NASA on top. It also came across as yet another excuse to deny human influence on climate change (which, I believe to be the primary target of this thread).
Did you know that earth indeed has a polar shift due to a wobble? We have known that for over a century. And that shift is separate from magnetic shift, which also has been an ongoing process. It didn't start recently. And that is not why we see heat islands on the map or have people wear breathing masks in cities like Beijing.
I had no agenda (as I believe pollution is certainly an influence in climate). Just started researching the lunar facial shift and it ballooned out to the magnetic poles. The Magnetic Poles have nothing to do (directly) with the Geo Poles. But, the point of discussion I wanted to raise is the indirect effects it could have on overall climate change. Climate change is a fact and it's happened countless times (even before the advent of pollution). The ability to study it's effect on longterm climate change (however indirectly) is still new as it hasn't been possible to do so until recently. It is an exercise in critical thinking. Some people will scoff, some will be bored with it, but some will apply some thought and do some research. If we all share what we learn, we all benefit. I may not have worded or associated in the best possible way, but that's ok. Those who are interested in this can muddle through that and seek clarification on my intent (kind of like our conversation).
I had no agenda (as I believe pollution is certainly an influence in climate). Just started researching the lunar facial shift and it ballooned out to the magnetic poles. The Magnetic Poles have nothing to do (directly) with the Geo Poles. But, the point of discussion I wanted to raise is the indirect effects it could have on overall climate change. Climate change is a fact and it's happened countless times (even before the advent of pollution). The ability to study it's effect on longterm climate change (however indirectly) is still new as it hasn't been possible to do so until recently. It is an exercise in critical thinking. Some people will scoff, some will be bored with it, but some will apply some thought and do some research. If we all share what we learn, we all benefit. I may not have worded or associated in the best possible way, but that's ok. Those who are interested in this can muddle through that and seek clarification on my intent (kind of like our conversation).
Like I said, you had the issue of climate change in mind and to blame it on something else but on human influence. And in this case, a jumble of magnetic shift (on earth) and "shift" of the moon. On the bright side, you don't deny climate change, like many others do.
But let us revisit the moon (I assume you missed my edit adding to my response). There is nothing to be alarmed about seeing tycho at a different position (as seen from earth). It is still where it has been, for eons. It is still being perceived as shifting as it has been for eons. The reason is something you should ask your son to investigate as it should help him think beyond assuming a rather simple motion of the planets and their satellites.
That clearly doesn't have an impact on climate change, can it? You can also read similar claims made in years past.
Next up, magnetic shift. That isn't a newly arrived phenomenon either. Besides, climate would be influenced by polar shifts, not by magnetic shifts. For that matter, and take an extreme example for illustration, I don't expect peak summer to be peak winter when the magnetic poles flips.
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,406,723 times
Reputation: 2394
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude
Yes I did. The article is stupid. Your next sentence demonstrates why.
Tycho is where it has always been. It has not moved.
Depending at the point in which the moon is observed as it traverses the sky, the "clock orientation" of features on its surface changes relative to an observer standing on the earth. The same effect ca be seen with Constellations like Orion, Pegasus and Ursa Major.
This "shift" occurs every night. It has occurred every night for the entire history of the earth-moon system. It will reoccur every night until they no longer exist,
Ok. So you think the article is stupid. But, quite a few amateur astronomers have noticed this (that is what spawned news interest). The face of the moon has not changed one bit despite the seasons (until recently). Tycho has always been at 5:30 position and the Sea of Tranquility has always been fixed. I have never noticed these geographical landmarks being at different angles from one season to another. I know these landmarks did not move. But, for some reason what we are seeing is slightly different than the norm. The constellations do change positions with the angle of the earth, but the moon does not.
Ok. So you think the article is stupid. But, quite a few amateur astronomers have noticed this (that is what spawned news interest).
The operational word is "amateur," and the exaggeration is quite a few. There are hundreds of thousands of amateurs astronomers, and tens of thousands of professionals. All but a tiny fraction know better than the author of that silly blog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82
Tycho has always been at 5:30 position and the Sea of Tranquility has always been fixed.
False.
Tycho is always at the 5:30 position at a specific time every day. And it is always at a specific different position at specific different times every day.
Nothing has changed.
Here is moonrise:
Here is moonset:
As you will note, relative to an observer on the earth the moon appears to rotate in a clockwise direction as it traverses the sky.
It does this every single day.
Last edited by HistorianDude; 04-11-2012 at 09:36 AM..
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