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You guys are going back and forth about details that aren't the most important. This entire case will essentially come down to who was screaming "HELP...HELP!!" on the 911 tapes. If it's Zimmerman, he'll likely be acquitted; if it's Trayvon, Zimmerman will most definitely be convicted of murder and get sentenced to at least a 20 year prison sentence as it would be 100% clear that he absolutely didn't shoot Trayvon in self-defense.
My guess, based on what I know about Zimmerman's past and what those two or three voice recognition experts concluded about who screamed for help, is that Zimmerman probably didn't shoot Trayvon in self-defense, but out of anger and frustration as a result of their brief encounter. There was probably a brief fist fight and they ended up on the ground, but then Zimmerman gained control of the situation, grabbed a hold of Trayvon (hence the HELP HELP!! heard on the 911 tapes), and out of anger and frustration, shot Trayvon to death.
That is my guess as well, based on the information provided in the five threads and the media. I also believe that the voice on the tape is that of Trayvon Martin, due to its high pitch. IMO, there's a great deal of evidence that we don't know yet or the State's Attorney would have most likely pursued a charge of manslaughter.
What drama? From what I've learned, the Castle Domain Law isn't applicable here. The co-sponsors of FL's SYG law have gone on record as stating that their legislation doesn't cover Zimmerman's actions. Again, since Martin's phone went off shortly before the shooting, you have no way of knowing what was said or done. Nor do I. As for the hypothetical post, please...save the imaginary scenarios. If Zimmerman knew that the police were on the way, what need was there to pursue Martin? The police arrived 1 minute after the shooting; if Zimmerman had waited a mere 60 seconds, this discussion wouldn't be happening. That doesn't sound like someone ready to "let it go at that." As for Gacy and Dahmer, the statement is true...perhaps you're too young to remember.
The need was that Zimmerman is a frustrated wannabe cop. Because of his arrest record he was never going to become one, yet he was still taking law enforement classes like someone who could actually pursue a career in that field.
So since he was never going to become a cop in real life, he became one in his own mind and this condo complex was his beat.
There is still the possibility that GZ won't go to trial, I'm sure his attorney will request a hearing on the Stand Your Ground law...
"At some point soon, O'Mara also is expected to ask the judge for a hearing on Florida's "stand your ground" self-defense law, which gives people a broad right to use deadly force without having to retreat from a fight.
"It is going to be a facet of this defense, I'm sure," he said in an interview.
For all the relief among civil rights activists over the arrest, legal experts warned there is a real chance the case could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of the "stand your ground" law."
There is still the possibility that GZ won't go to trial, I'm sure his attorney will request a hearing on the Stand Your Ground law...
"At some point soon, O'Mara also is expected to ask the judge for a hearing on Florida's "stand your ground" self-defense law, which gives people a broad right to use deadly force without having to retreat from a fight.
"It is going to be a facet of this defense, I'm sure," he said in an interview.
For all the relief among civil rights activists over the arrest, legal experts warned there is a real chance the case could get thrown out before it ever goes to trial because of the "stand your ground" law."
The defense will undoubtably file every pre-trial motion they can think of arguing for dismissal. That's their job after all. SYG will probably be one. As will insufficnent evidence, and at the least a request for a venu change due to a tainted jury pool. I'd also expect them to ask for a dismissal based on being unable to find an impartial jury anywhere, due to the publicity of the case. Most will undoubtably be rejected by the judge. But it only takes one to get him off.
IMO the critical factors for the trial will be the witness to the fight, the audios from the 911 calls, particularly if they can provide conclusive evidence as to who was screaming, and the forensics of the gunshot. If the gunshot took place from several feet away, self defense will be hard to justify. Even so, not impossible. The defense doesn't need proof, just reasonable doubt. The burden of proof is on the prosecutor.
I do not see this as a race case or maybe I choose to see to not see this.
What I see? Is a man putting the law into his own hands and killing a child.
I will state the reality'
1. GZ saw what he thought was a crime in progress in his eyes
2. He contacted 911, dispatch stated to him that he cease to pursue and wait
3. GZ CHOSE to pursue and brandish his firearm and ask TM what he was doing there?
4. Truth is GZ is not a peace officer
5. There was no immediate threat, TM was not committing a crime, he was walking down a street.
6. Should have GZ sustained injuries? It would be in self defense.
7. FLA state law does not apply to him because GZ WAS IN NO DANGER, GZ CHOSE TO APPROACH TM AFTER DISPATCH TOLD HIM TO STAND DOWN
8. This could have been avoided..was there a patch of wilderness that GZ could not get to in his vehicle in order to not keep TM in clear view should he commit a so called "crime"?
Bottom line? There was no just cause why TM should be dead and GZ will have his day in court and he should consider himself lucky to not get the death penalty whcih could only be awarded should it be deemed that TM death was premeditated.
GZ did this to himself period.
I do not know How I would react let alone my 15 year old son.
I am half native american and half irish but look native. My son's father, my ex is white and he and his g/f live in the white part of our city,
my son is more white than he is native american yet his looks? Are that of a light skinned hispanic male.
I play this reality over and over in my head, no one person can determine their actual response until they are faced with it!
I keep seeing him walking down his dads hood and some hypervigilante individual pegs my son as a hood, lol a honors student and a good kid never in trouble with the law but because my son SHOULD look SUSPECT this equates some trigger happy neighborhood watch self appointed capt that has called the PD 45 times in the last year to pursue my son on foot and brandish a gun and then ask my son what he is doing there?
I think of how I would act..I am 38, a law abiding citizen, I will be damned if some chump that is not an officer approaches me with a gun and demands what I am doing there.
Last time I looked? I am educated, and trust worthy law abiding I am not going to stand there and let some STRANGER/WEIRDO ask m,e what I am doing there.
If in fact GZ concurred some injuries I say they were gained in self defense. He will have his day in court and let justice be served in order for some other trigger happy ahole be deterred from doing this again
I draw conclusions based on evidence and on facts presented. We have a 911 call from Zimmerman. We hear him running (jogging actually, based on the rate of footsteps). We hear him stop running (no more pounding foot steps or heavy breathing) very shortly after he is told "we don't need you to do that". Reports place him in the area shown on the map as E, which is consistent with his statement. He reported that he was walking back to his vehicle when confronted by Martin. That is consistant with where the shooting took place.
What does when he appologized have to do with the FACTS. His life had been threatened and he was in hiding. DO you expect him to go and knock on the Martin's door and say I'm sorry?
I'm not saying he's a good guy. And I'm not saying that he DID shoot in self defense. I am saying that what we have for evidence so far fits the facts as he presented. Specifically, that he was watching Martin and reporting his position to police. That he lost sight of him, and continued to wait for police. That after some time (based on your link, it appears to be about 10 minutes) he began walking back to his vehicle, and was confronted by Martin on the way. This fits the timeline, the locations with respect to where Martin was staying, where Zimmerman waited for police, and where his vehicle was parked.
Martin running home and Zimmerman running him down on the way and shooting him in cold blood, and taking 15 minutes to cover 300 feet, doesn't.
Trayvon's girlfriend heard the initial exchange between them, and from what we know that she's said Trayvon asked "Why are you following me?"
That's a reasonable question, and not phrased in a way that would indicate that Martin had doubled back. Plus, he was clearly nervous if not afraid that he was being followed. If he'd made it that last 70 yards, it seems reasonable that he'd have been more than happy to go inside. But you don't know where Zimmerman waited for police...you have only his word, and his veracity is questionable. Zimmerman's vehicle was on the road, whereas he and Trayvon's body were found at the designated spot on the map. My thinking on Zimmerman not apologizing is that it indicates a lack of remorse, which most people would feel after killing a teenager even in self-defense. Instead the Zimmermans have gone on the offensive. Regardless, all of this could have been avoided had Zimmerman
simply remained in his vehicle and waited for the police to arrive. IMO, it's the first of several cases of poor judgment on Zimmerman's part. We shall see how it proceeds.
That is my guess as well, based on the information provided in the five threads and the media. I also believe that the voice on the tape is that of Trayvon Martin, due to its high pitch. IMO, there's a great deal of evidence that we don't know yet or the State's Attorney would have most likely pursued a charge of manslaughter.
What about the eyewitness who actually saw the "guy is the red sweater" underneath Trayvon, screaming to him (the eyewitness) for help? (we all saw in the police video that GZ had on a red & black jacket)
I agree there is evidence that we are not privy to and I would hope the state has some pretty strong evidence to support a second degree murder charge. Otherwise there is a strong possibility the judge will dimiss the case and immunize GZ from both criminal & civil prosecution.
If this happens, Angela Corey will still come out smelling like roses all primed and ready for election time...
IMHO Angela Corey's "press conference" announcing the charge smacked of Political Pandering and Proselytizing.
If Zimmerman is such a good guy, why is he only now...when the reality of incarceration has hit him...decided to issue an apology to Trayvon's parents? If I had to kill someone, even in self-defense, I'd be so filled with remorse and regret. Yet Zimmerman has yet to express either one; that says a great deal about the real George, and not the one concocted by his family and a friend. As Katiana asked, prove it.
On the one hand, I agree with you. From day one, we have heard no remorse expressed, not even "it's terrible that a teenager was killed" from Zimmerman's friends or his family. Frank Taaffe said Zimmerman was probably just angry and fed up when he shot Martin. Zimmerman's father and brother both went on TV and talked about his injuries, but I never heard either of them express their condolences to Martin's parents. Even on Zimmerman's web site, he talked about how the shooting changed his life. He used a photo of graffiti that was sprayed on the front of a Black Cultural Center which means he condones vandalism as long as it supports his cause. He removed it, but where does it mention anything about Trayvon Martin or his family? [url=http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/]The Real George Zimmerman[/url] At least his new attorney has shown some compassion.
On the other hand, it is possible Zimmerman got very bad legal advice from those clowns who said they represented him. At first I thought he didn't express sympathy for the Martin family because he was told it would be an admittance of guilt. He's probably now being encouraged to show his humanity because it will benefit him in the long run, especially if this case ever goes to trial.
The person who has handled herself with the most grace is Trayvon Martin's mother. I am surprised she and her attorney went on Bill O'Reilly's show, but the interview went well IMO.
[url=http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/04/12/video-trayvon-martins-mother-tells-bill-oreilly-how-shed-react-if-george-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty/]Video: Trayvon Martin’s Mother Tells Bill O’Reilly How She’d React If George Zimmerman Is Found ‘Not Guilty’ | Fox News Insider[/url]
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