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Men and women shouldn't have children outside of marriage. And if it happens, the couple in question should get married. Promiscuity is not an excuse to be derelict.
Derelict, meaning "neglectful of obligation" perhaps? Well, what obligation is that? I've already said my priority is being a good parent. You've yet to explain how not getting legally married in and of itself conflicts with that. I have no obligation to your ideals of what a family should or shouldn't do. So again, what is the harm?
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Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC
A strong society depends on a strong familial unit. What we've seen over the past 5 decades is the systemic destruction of the family, and as a result we've seen the systemic destruction of a strong society.
Nonsense. At best, we're seeing a destruction of tradition. Families such as mine are every bit as strong as a family in which the parents are legally married.
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Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC
Study after study has proven that broken families breed a revolving door of poverty, crime, high school dropouts, bastardization, and other societal ills. Just take a look around you....its everywhere and it's tearing this nation apart at the seams.
Exactly, BROKEN families. Families that split up or are otherwise unhappy. This is harmful to children, same as people who judge others for no good reason (e.g., you). Families that stay together tend to be happy and healthy. Yes, even those who don't get legally married
If you want to bring up studies, you should A) cite those studies, and B) use them correctly. I challenge you to find a study showing that parents who don't get married yet stay together happily do any identifiable harm to their children.
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Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC
If your girlfriend is the mother of your child, then kudos to you for keeping her around. It sounds like she's one lucky girl to not have been kicked to the curb by the guy who refuses to marry her.
Marriage should not be used to keep someone from leaving you. That's an even greater perversion of love than the notion of legal marriage's superiority itself!
I deserve no "kudos" for "keeping her around". She stays with me because she loves me, and I love her, and we manage all this without a legally binding contract. Go figure, eh?
All you've done here is to make excuses for your self-serving ways. I could care less about you personally. What I care about is the overarching affect that people such as yourself have on society by continuing to push forth the mantle of individualism no matter the larger cost. It's very clear to me that your whole attitude is "It's all about ME....everyone else be damned.""""
Yup, every time a Repug starts ripping on the poor , those on WIC who need food to feed their CHILDREN....then it's the Repugs battle cry, "It's all about me...and every one else be damned!
"" I don't want to get married. Who cares what my child picks up from that!!" I'm sure your child is learning that very same attitude. We as society will be paying for it one day, but you could care less because its all about "you." And that's precisely my point in the original post that you quoted.
So you believe that if criminals, murders, pedophiles, rapists, embezzelers, blackmailers, and any other corrupt person just gets married society will be saved....how ridiculous!
The genie is out of the bottle, and you can't put it back.
Women who choose to be independent aren't going to marry someone just to fulfill the ideals of a small segment of society that wants the nation to go backwards to a more traditional time.
Rather than going backwards, let's go forward.
If you want to reduce the number of abortions, don't pooh-pooh women's reasons for seeking abortions. Instead, address the problems that women, both single women and attached women, are faced with in terms of being pregnant and having children. Make fixing the problems your focus instead of controlling women your focus, and the number of abortions will go down.
Aeroguydc... this is the 21st century, pregnancy doesn't have to mean marriage. This kind of thinking is one of the reasons divorce rates are so high. If you get married for the wrong reasons it is more likely to fail. Not very good logic on your part. Also, how does this affect the "sanctity" of marriage? Ill answer for you... it harms it. The whole sanctity of marriage is a sham anyways.
Wow, those leftists have amazing powers, don't they? I'm sure they just jumped in the heads of average citizens to help shift our mores. Yeah, that has to be it.
Uh, yep.
Yes, that was exactly what they did.
It's like you're going "hahahaha what an idiot you are, you're actually saying that 2+2=4! Give me a break! hahahaha"
Trying to couch reality in ridiculing terms does not change the fact that it is reality. The feminist movement absolutely helped shift sexual mores in American society. Trying to deny it is foolish.
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Seeing that some of the least moral people in our country are clergy, perhaps people got tired of the hypocrisy.
Pathetic.
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Why can't you own up to the fact that society has changed for the better?
I never said I couldn't. I unreservedly and wholeheartedly support equal rights for women. Women's lib is a great thing, no question about it.
However, it has also led to millions of children growing up in broken homes, which is a bad thing.
See, unlike you, I do not follow a party line which requires me to deny reality in order to remain politically correct.
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In your worldview, women should be barefoot and pregnant. Am I right?
Well, I'd like to respond to your argument, except you didn't make one. That barefoot and pregnant meme was used up 30 years ago. Hardly ever fails, the liberal answer is to go to racism, sexism, or classism. Will leftists ever learn that calling someone names doesn't prove their argument wrong?
I seriously don't get why it's such a common tactic on the left. Of course their answer is inevitably "your argument wasn't worth refuting" but that just begs the question of why answer in the first place then.
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Actually, it is your side that refuses to accept that you lost.
That's true.
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Abortion is legal. Democrats defend a woman's right to choose despite the onslaught from Republicans who pretend to fight for the constitution yet seem to often do the exact opposite.
Yes, I've posted about this before. Liberals often bring up abortion as the evidence they are for freedom. Of course, they want to ban salt in restaurants, limit 2nd ammendment rights, ban happy meals, ban bags at the grocery store, dictate what the terms of everyone's health insurance will be and require them to buy it, control student loans, ban free speech on public sidewalks, shut down oil drilling, control rent, etc. But yeah you're the ones defending our constitutional freedoms all right!
Look, notice that we want to ban abortion because we consider it murder. Not because we want to control people. You, on the other hand, cannot make that claim. Did the Democrats claim that eating salt is a crime? No. But they wanted to ban it anyway. See, you may claim that we're wrong about abortion being muder but at least we have a reason for wanting to ban it. With you, it's just Democrats wanting to be everyone's nanny.
Really, it's laughable. You guys should stick to what you're good at. When it comes to pandering to minorities, you win. When it comes to protecting the environment, you win. But don't try to claim you're fighting for freedom. You are the party of centralized government, regulation, and taxes. When you try to pretend you're not, it just comes off as ridiculous posturing. Seriously, it hurts you more than helps you because it's just so patently false and makes all your nanny state rules all the more glaring.
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And as for the racism comment, which party is writing legislation that is scaring the hell out of legal Mexican-American residents in Alabama, Arizona and Georgia?
So instead of refuting what I said, you've simply gone and provided an example of it. Manufacturing a racist issue and blaming it on Republicans. You've reinforced the truth of my claims.
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Maybe if you didn't sound so pious and self-righteous, your viewpoint wouldn't be shunned by so many on both the left AND the right.
It's not a viewpoint. It's a statement of fact. Liberalism has caused a breakdown in traditional families. That's not opinion. That's not a viewpoint. That's history.
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Who the hell are you to tell anyone what they should think or what they should do when it comes to personal medical decisions?
Nobody. Everyone should make their own personal medical decisions.
Oh, by the way, I hope you say the same when it comes to government mandates in Obamacare.
Laws are not the answer. Front side personal responsibility is the answer.
Personal responsibility starts at home, with a two parent home. We can't expect kids to fully understand the definition personal responsibility if we can't expect two people to live their lives as examples to the kids. How do you tell a kid to not have bastard child when the parents themselves have reveled in bastardization their entire lives? It's a revolving door that has to be stopped.
Personal responsibility is a very simple concept that millions of people in this nation fail to understand and embrace.
Yes it is my premise that liberalism created this problem. However, you are incorrect in that I did not say that societal problems spring full blown from nothing. I did, in fact, say that it took decades of gradual erosion to break down to this point.
Every social problem does not begin with the individual. I don't know where you even came up with a notion like that. Do you really think in the 1960s millions of people just individually decided they no longer wanted to discriminate against blacks? You think civil rights organizations had nothing to do with it? Millions of individuals all coincidentally happened to decide to accept women in the workplace? Feminism had nothing to do with it?
Not that those are social problems. Despite liberal rhetoric, conservatives actually support equal rights. But my point is that activism effects social change over time. It changes attitudes. People just didn't spontaneously decide in the "individual human heart" that premarital sex and abortion were okay, feminism effected that change by preaching women's rights and sexual liberation for years until it gradually became mainstream. Most liberals I believe would agree with that. Of course they'd disagree over whether that change is good or bad, but I doubt many if any would disagree with the fact that it happened. I mean, if it didn't, if advocacy groups and activism don't change anything, then why do NOW or NAACP even exist?
Are you suggesting there was no racial hatred, no bigotry, no sex outside of marriage, no abortions, no unplanned pregnancies before somebody started talking about them? It was unheard of until some "liberal" group with an agenda convinced people to start doing those things?
I don't what planet you grew up on, but on mine those things have been around since the Garden of Eden. All you're doing now is trying to define politically what is, in actuality, human nature.
You seem to think that bastardization is good for society. I wholeheartedly disagree.
Being a bastard myself, I don't see how it effects society. I believe in abstinence, but it is unrealistic to expect everyone to follow it.
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Originally Posted by jazzarama
Except for forced sex, unintended pregnancy is Mostly the women's fault.
In the words of Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock "It takes two to make a thing go right."
Did you skip biology or sex ed?
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