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The problem with discussing poverty is that it is an incredibly wide concept.
A family of four who can't afford a vacation and can't quite make ends meet without borrowing from the grandparents is poor.
A family who live in a shack in a third-world ghetto with only sporadic work and sometimes go hungry for days is poor.
A homeless guy living under a bridge, owning only the clothes on his back and eating out of garbage cans is also poor.
Yet the difference in living standards between these examples is vast.
Countries define poverty in different ways as well. There are two main definitions:
Absolute poverty, which is being to poor to satisfy basic needs such as food, clothes, shelter, education and health care.
Relative poverty, which means not having the ability to have a decent life compared to the average person in your location. In Norway, the line is drawn at roughly an income of $ 40 000 or less for a household. About 10 % of the population of Norway falls below this threshold.
The poverty line in the USA is about 22 500 $. 15 % of the population fall below it.
Note that numbers are not PPP, and Norwegian poor will have access to free at the point of delivery health care, education and all-round more comprehensive social services.
I've seen numbers estimating absolute poverty around 10 % in the USA, but I am not sure I trust them. There are no legal residents in absolute poverty in Norway.
German relative poverty numbers are similar to the USA. Sweden does not have an official poverty rate, I don't think.
What you cannot do is compare Americas absolute poverty rates to other countries relative poverty rates.
I completely agree, that's why I used the 15% for the USA (relative poverty rate) for the comparison to the 3 countries as given.
They still pay, it's not quite free for all, only the truly unhealthy. The healthy actually pay, not a large amount mind you, but they do pay for things the Norwegian Health Insurance doesn't. (NOTE: its health insurance by Norway, with held from paychecks and subsidized.)
lol, it is almost getting painful, watching you twist in the wind, trying yo invent an escape from the hole you dug. You really think the minor costs associated with Norway's health care compares to the complete absence of coverage millions of Americans face? you are grasping at straws, let's say this is all off topic and you get back to the thread topic, and save some face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns
I completely agree, that's why I used the 15% for the USA (relative poverty rate) for the comparison to the 3 countries as given.
They still pay, it's not quite free for all, only the truly unhealthy. The healthy actually pay, not a large amount mind you, but they do pay for things the Norwegian Health Insurance doesn't. (NOTE: its health insurance by Norway, with held from paychecks and subsidized.)
They still pay, it's not quite free for all, only the truly unhealthy. The healthy actually pay, not a large amount mind you, but they do pay for things the Norwegian Health Insurance doesn't. (NOTE: its health insurance by Norway, with held from paychecks and subsidized.)
What that person who wrote that text does not understand is that the welfare state is in fact similar to insurance. Why would this surprise anyone? This person fails to understand how complex and vast the welfare is in Norway, and its neighbors. And you don't have to deal with preexisting conditions as you'd with with a private insurance company.
Anyone who believes "free healthcare" actually means _free_ and no one has to pay needs a reality check, or an education.
I doubt an excess of USD 342 compares to what an uninsured person in the US would have to pay. If you're unable to pay this small amount you will not die in the streets.
lol, it is almost getting painful, watching you twist in the wind, trying yo invent an escape from the hole you dug. You really think the minor costs associated with Norway's health care compares to the complete absence of coverage millions of Americans face? you are grasping at straws, let's say this is all off topic and you get back to the thread topic, and save some face.
Hole I dug? Twisting in the wind? Grasping at straws? Your utopia isn't quite what you think it is. What complete absence in the USA of health care? If you show up to an emergency room you will get treated, thats not complete absence as you claim. Your arguments only show you have no grasp of the dynamics involved, especially those of Europe, and all you do is regurgitate the rhetoric you hear.
I've steered you to the water, but I can't force you to drink it.
What that person who wrote that text does not understand is that the welfare state is in fact similar to insurance. Why would this surprise anyone? This person fails to understand how complex and vast the welfare is in Norway, and its neighbors. And you don't have to deal with preexisting conditions as you'd with with a private insurance company.
Anyone who believes "free healthcare" actually means _free_ and no one has to pay needs a reality check, or an education.
I doubt an excess of USD 342 compares to what an uninsured person in the US would have to pay. If you're unable to pay this small amount you will not die in the streets.
fyi, that $342 is the cost of 13 office vists in Norway. $27 for an office visit, LOL, any idea what one of those cost here in the USA?
Last doctor visit I paid for, out of pocket because of deductable and co-pays was $145, of course the blood works and tests ordered weren't included, but was covered.
Quote:
Any healthy person must pay up to NOK1880 as of 2011, (or US$342), a year to see the doctor before the ‘free’ kicks in. A regular consultation for 15 minutes is priced at NOK136 in Norway 2011. Hence, 13 normal consultations a year.
like I said, you're living in a bubble. and you're grasping at straws.
enjoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns
Hole I dug? Twisting in the wind? Grasping at straws? Your utopia isn't quite what you think it is. What complete absence in the USA of health care? If you show up to an emergency room you will get treated, thats not complete absence as you claim. Your arguments only show you have no grasp of the dynamics involved, especially those of Europe, and all you do is regurgitate the rhetoric you hear.
I've steered you to the water, but I can't force you to drink it.
The problem with discussing poverty is that it is an incredibly wide concept.
A family of four who can't afford a vacation and can't quite make ends meet without borrowing from the grandparents is poor.
A family who live in a shack in a third-world ghetto with only sporadic work and sometimes go hungry for days is poor.
A homeless guy living under a bridge, owning only the clothes on his back and eating out of garbage cans is also poor.
Yet the difference in living standards between these examples is vast.
Countries define poverty in different ways as well. There are two main definitions:
Absolute poverty, which is being to poor to satisfy basic needs such as food, clothes, shelter, education and health care.
Relative poverty, which means not having the ability to have a decent life compared to the average person in your location. In Norway, the line is drawn at roughly an income of $ 40 000 or less for a household. About 10 % of the population of Norway falls below this threshold.
The poverty line in the USA is about 22 500 $. 15 % of the population fall below it.
Note that numbers are not PPP, and Norwegian poor will have access to free at the point of delivery health care, education and all-round more comprehensive social services.
I've seen numbers estimating absolute poverty around 10 % in the USA, but I am not sure I trust them. There are no legal residents in absolute poverty in Norway.
German relative poverty numbers are similar to the USA. Sweden does not have an official poverty rate, I don't think.
What you cannot do is compare Americas absolute poverty rates to other countries relative poverty rates.
agreed ^^^ thanks for putting the proper terminology on the question. On an absolute level, poverty in America far exceeds that of most "developed" countries because that safety net is not really a net at all.
Relative to most countries we appear to be better of, but is only the extreme high standard of living of the uber wealthy that pulls up the "averages" for those at the bottom. You cannot say, on average Americans are doing well, when you have an income divide, GINI number, that says there are really two Americas.
fyi, that $342 is the cost of 13 office vists in Norway. $27 for an office visit, LOL, any idea what one of those cost here in the USA?
Last doctor visit I paid for, out of pocket because of deductable and co-pays was $145, of course the blood works and tests ordered weren't included, but was covered.
Yes I do. Which is why his link provides nothing of value to any discussion.
like I said, you're living in a bubble. and you're grasping at straws.
enjoy.
So now your dynamics have gone to "absolute poverty" where before you only mentioned poverty in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27
agreed ^^^ thanks for putting the proper terminology on the question. On an absolute level, poverty in America far exceeds that of most "developed" countries because that safety net is not really a net at all.
Relative to most countries we appear to be better of, but is only the extreme high standard of living of the uber wealthy that pulls up the "averages" for those at the bottom. You cannot say, on average Americans are doing well, when you have an income divide, GINI number, that says there are really two Americas.
Absolute poverty in the USA "far exceeds" that of most developed countries? The UK has a higher absolute poverty rate then the US, Germany and Sweden aren't all that far behind the USA. Your linked picture is of relative poverty and only a percentage of people of a State. As Sidee said before, you would do much better to argue individual States of the US to individual countries in Europe.
fyi, that $342 is the cost of 13 office vists in Norway. $27 for an office visit, LOL, any idea what one of those cost here in the USA?
Last doctor visit I paid for, out of pocket because of deductable and co-pays was $145, of course the blood works and tests ordered weren't included, but was covered.
In Norway those tests and blood work would be additional costs, they aren't covered.
Quote:
This unfortunately does not cover any extra costs such as disinfectants, bandages, or needles for blood samples, for example. These certainly get added to your bill. When I had the smear I paid for the consultation as well as the disposables, items used and the test.
Dynamics and Complexities.
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