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Communicating in the english language is is your choice on these forums, because you want to be able to understand and comprehend what is said, to communicate and exchange ideas. When an immigrant comes to the USA and chooses to not learn the language, they are choosing not to interact with, communicate with or understand the people of the nation.
If a person cannot read, write or speak English, they will not understand our laws, will not understand their neighbors, nor will they be able to understand their politicians. How can a person adequately exercise their right to vote if they can't even understand what the candidates are saying.
Like I said before, we have English speaking adults who misinterpret or laws, not understanding the language they are written in. BTW, relying on 20 different translations
variations of a
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
I do that only when I come across with someone trumpeting those ideological grounds. And if speaking what I see leads to marginalizing self, and especially considering the audience, I’d prefer to keep doing that.
A lot of things don’t need to be said, or spelled out. They’re way too obvious and speak for themselves. Only a connection deserves to be made.
Stating that a person is opposed to the bulkanization of our nation's population is not an example of "trumpeting those ideological grounds. You do marginalize yourself when you make posts based on straw dogs like that, in order to attack people for things they never said, or inferred.
In the town where I work, which is about 68% Hispanic (and that's only counting documented/permanent residents), you'll hear a wide variety of language skills - including a bit of Spanglish, LOL. Some of the more recent immigrants ONLY speak Spanish, but I'd say the majority at least manage some English when they're around English speakers. It's always funny when they assume I don't speak Spanish, due to my pale freckled skin and bright red hair... so they'll try to use English when they approach the library desk, and I'll quickly switch to Spanish if they seem to be struggling. Boy does that get a funny, yet very relieved, look from most of them!
Anyway, I don't think you can make such a broad generalization. Having worked & lived among the Hispanic community for much of my life, I really don't think that's true nor fair. And to answer the OP's question, I think they've assimilated as well as any other recent (at their time) wave of immigrants... I mean, did my Russian-Jewish ancestors assimilate immediately? I'd guess not, judging by the fact that my great-grandparents still primarily spoke Yiddish LONG after immigrating here.
I am just telling you what my ears are hearing so it is just a fact. Rarely do I hear a Hispanic person speaking in English in my neck of the woods. They may know English I don't know but they refuse to use it as their primary language and that isn't assimilation to me.
My Polish ancestors (my grandparents) came here speaking only Polish but they made sure that their kids fully assimilated to the English language and they were first generation Americans. Polish was only spoken a little in the home and usually it was to communicate better with my grandparents. Out in mainstream America their kids (my father) spoke only English.
Considering that a lot of them are recent immigrants and it usually takes a generation to assimilate fully, that comes as no surprise. Just give em time...Italian Americans assimilated perfectly...oh...well...
It isn't "immigrants" we are talking about but illegal aliens. Most of them are from one ethnic group that are native Spanish speakers. The sheer volume of them along with their citizen counterparts who are adamant about speaking Spanish everywhere will not and is not being condusive to assimilation. What is happening today is no comparison to past immigration.
I think the thread is about a national assimilation. When it comes to any kind of assimilation, the larger culture is going to rule. The older culture, if it is different from the larger culture, is pretty much out of luck.
Newt Gingrich said that Hispanics should learn English, and preferably the sooner the better. He said, "I have nothing against Spanish, but in America English is the language of prosperity," and of course he was quite right. It doesn't sound politically correct, but it is the reality.
In a sense, no one has to assimilate into the larger culture, or any culture, for that matter (for the life of me, my cousin/biker comes to mind). However, the result of non-assimilation is almost invariably a lower standard of living (I'm still seeing my cousin). If a person, or a people, would rather not assimilate, that can and should be their prerogative. But it should then come as no surprise if their level of income is substandard. They have no grounds to complain. It was their choice to make.
Plus, if you are a parent, and do not assimilate, how can you speak with your child's teacher, or the parents of their friends, or interact with anyone on behalf of your children? If you cannot speak, read or write English, how can you approve of a school trip, or even call into the school when your child is sick?
If you do not learn English and choose to live in the USA, you will always be a stranger, in a strange land.
Whether Anglo settlers were illegal immigrants was not the point. They came to area that was controlled by another government and then wanted to take it as their own. Which was precisely what they did. The Mexican-American War was basically a land grab by American political and economic interest that wanted the nation to be contiguous continental land mass.
So? Wars have been fought and land has exchanged hands throughout history and all over the world. That does not give Mexicans the right to come to our country today illegally nor anyone else. Why do you think that this country was only comprised of "anglos" at that time? That simply isn't true. The Spanish weren't "anglos".
I am just telling you what my ears are hearing so it is just a fact. Rarely do I hear a Hispanic person speaking in English in my neck of the woods. They may know English I don't know but they refuse to use it as their primary language and that isn't assimilation to me.
My Polish ancestors (my grandparents) came here speaking only Polish but they made sure that their kids fully assimilated to the English language and they were first generation Americans. Polish was only spoken a little in the home and usually it was to communicate better with my grandparents. Out in mainstream America their kids (my father) spoke only English.
I agree many know the English language whom are legal citizens but make know effort to make themselves feel apart of the USA. They want their country bought to America. From the language to their native political flags.
I guess the difference between Hispanics and other ethnic groups is that there are simply so many Hispanics that they wouldn't feel lonely, even if they completely avoided non-Hispanics. Critical mass so to speak Oftentimes when you are Hispanic and look at someone else, you already know whether or not that person is able to communicate with you in Spanish. With people of Polish or Danish or German ancestry that is not the case.
English is not even the official language of the US.
I guess the difference between Hispanics and other ethnic groups is that there are simply so many Hispanics that they wouldn't feel lonely, even if they completely avoided non-Hispanics. Critical mass so to speak Oftentimes when you are Hispanic and look at someone else, you already know whether or not that person is able to communicate with you in Spanish. With people of Polish or Danish or German ancestry that is not the case.
English is not even the official language of the US.
It may not be the "official" language but it certainly is our national language. Even congress refers to English as our national language. Most Americans are native English speakers also. You cannot deny the facts.
It isn't "immigrants" we are talking about but illegal aliens. Most of them are from one ethnic group that are native Spanish speakers. The sheer volume of them along with their citizen counterparts who are adamant about speaking Spanish everywhere will not and is not being condusive to assimilation. What is happening today is no comparison to past immigration.
My great-grandmother told me that when she went to school, if she or other school children spoke French, or some other language in class, the teacher would rap them with the flat side of a ruler.
I guess the difference between Hispanics and other ethnic groups is that there are simply so many Hispanics that they wouldn't feel lonely, even if they completely avoided non-Hispanics. Critical mass so to speak Oftentimes when you are Hispanic and look at someone else, you already know whether or not that person is able to communicate with you in Spanish. With people of Polish or Danish or German ancestry that is not the case.
English is not even the official language of the US.
...and in today's USA political, educational, and technical climate it is much easier to get along very well speaking/reading Spanish than it was 'back in the day' for the earlier primarily Euro immigrants to speak/read only their native language.
Last edited by jimazee; 04-18-2012 at 08:00 AM..
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Oftentimes when you are Hispanic and look at someone else, you already know whether or not that person is able to communicate with you in Spanish. With people of Polish or Danish or German ancestry that is not the case.