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Okay but a fetus with 6 toes, if that doesn't impact their life in any way, isn't really a disability. Would you abort a fetus with a disability that in any way impacts their life?
Ok you wanna go to the grey area let's use autism as an example. Would I abort a fetus that I knew would grow into a baby and human being with irreversible autism? I don't know. That would be a very hard decision for me. I mean what do you expect me to say? What are you trying to get at?
Let me put it in simpler terms. If medical technology allowed could tell me hey this fetus most definitely will develop into a baby with autism but your next one would not. Yes I would choose the healthy fetus over the one that would develop into an autistic child. And I'm using autism as an example because although it's pretty significant autistic children are fully functional physically and pretty highly functional mentally as well.
I understand what you are saying but....... You wouldn't be here today and you'd also have completely no idea that you never existed. Your point doesn't make much sense.
So are you saying we should let nature take its course? Or do we only allow nature to take it's course in terms of life and not death?
But we would, as would the people who know and love him, and the world would have been slightly less good (I am assuming the poster is a good person).
She absolutely should have the right to make a decision in a case like this. Animals get put down for less suffering than this, why must humans have to endure more? Anyone who is against euthanasia obviously has not had to live through horrific genetic illnesses for which there are no treatments such as ones like Huntington's disease or Lesch Nyhan syndrome where individuals with this genetic disease feel forced to self mutilate themselves constantly and feel all of the pain.
Bible thumping idiots should butt out and let people choose for themselves that are suffering horrifically. What's better for a family, to let a doctor peacefully administer euthanasia, or for to come home one day to find that someone with an onset of Huntington's has offed themselves with a shotgun blast to the head?
I understand what you are saying but....... You wouldn't be here today and you'd also have completely no idea that you never existed. Your point doesn't make much sense.
So are you saying we should let nature take its course? Or do we only allow nature to take it's course in terms of life and not death?
I am actually pro-choice for women, but I don't personally agree with the idea of using abortion as a form of eugenics. Of course I still support another woman's choice, but the fact that 92% of Down's babies are aborted makes me physically ill to think about. I think it's awful that able-bodied people who often have a very narrow understanding of disability and only think in terms of "can't" have the only say over whether a fetus with a projected disability will be born, when more often than not, they are severely underestimating what that fetus will be able to do once it becomes a child and then an adult. But in the end I have to support a woman's choice to abort, just as I support a severely disabled person's right to choose life or death. I don't know where I stand in terms of making that choice for someone else who hasn't had the chance to express their own desires. We all have a right to make a choice within our own lives, and I have to support that even if I disagree vehemently with another person's choice.
Nope, right and wrong are not relative. Taking the life of innocent people is always wrong.
Per your moral judgment. But hospices do not use all available medical means to continue life, how is that different? How is a DNR different? If I willfully run someone over by hitting the gas, or run them over by deliberately not braking, how is that different?
The death penalty has been used many times where evidence found later proved the person was innocent. Who should be tried for murder, judge, jury, executioner, citizens of the state?
Nope, right and wrong are not relative. Taking the life of innocent people is always wrong.
Morality is subjective it always has been and always will be. As we have progressed as civilized modern human beings we tend to agree that things like sacrificing human beings to the appease the gods is a silly immoral practice. But the jury is still out on things like euthanasia.
Ok you wanna go to the grey area let's use autism as an example. Would I abort a fetus that I knew would grow into a baby and human being with irreversible autism? I don't know. That would be a very hard decision for me. I mean what do you expect me to say? What are you trying to get at?
Let me put it in simpler terms. If medical technology allowed could tell me hey this fetus most definitely will develop into a baby with autism but your next one would not. Yes I would choose the healthy fetus over the one that would develop into an autistic child. And I'm using autism as an example because although it's pretty significant autistic children are fully functional physically and pretty highly functional mentally as well.
Is that what you're trying to get out of me?
Well there are different degrees of autism, too. For instance, I am on the autism spectrum, but I'm not severely autistic. So I guess that's two reasons you would have aborted me, lol. Unless of course, you're willing to make some wiggle room for high-functioning autism such as Asperger's.
I'm just trying to get at the fact that you basically agree with eugenics.
Nope, the court had to intervene. The husband was not allowed to kill her without court permission.
Very true.
What separates the severely disabled (ie, those without any semblance of quality of life or meaningful communication or awareness) on life support from people who are legally removed from those supports (tube feeding/TPN, mechanical ventilation) is a Living Will.
If a person is born without the ability to communicate in any fashion, or develops a similar state through illness or injury before such a will is in effect, well, they're completely out of luck.
I can't personally imagine what such an existence would be like, for the patient or for the family. But every now and then I happen across such a case in my work, and sometimes a family member, after years of repeat trips to the hospital with their savings depleted and family in crisis, will confide in the MD or RN that they just wish the patient would die. For many, their entire lives revolve around the patient, and there just doesn't seem to be any happiness left. I rarely see intact families, and it seems to mostly fall upon the mothers. The stress is overwhelming.
What separates the severely disabled (ie, those without any semblance of quality of life or meaningful communication or awareness) on life support from people who are legally removed from those supports (tube feeding/TPN, mechanical ventilation) is a Living Will.
If a person is born without the ability to communicate in any fashion, or develops a similar state through illness or injury before such a will is in effect, well, they're completely out of luck.
I can't personally imagine what such an existence would be like, for the patient or for the family. But every now and then I happen across such a case in my work, and sometimes a family member, after years of repeat trips to the hospital with their savings depleted and family in crisis, will confide in the MD or RN that they just wish the patient would die. For many, their entire lives revolve around the patient, and there just doesn't seem to be any happiness left. I rarely see intact families, and it seems to mostly fall upon the mothers. The stress is overwhelming.
It's heartbreaking.
This thread makes me want to write my will out right now.
I am actually pro-choice for women, but I don't personally agree with the idea of using abortion as a form of eugenics. Of course I still support another woman's choice, but the fact that 92% of Down's babies are aborted makes me physically ill to think about. I think it's awful that able-bodied people who often have a very narrow understanding of disability and only think in terms of "can't" have the only say over whether a fetus with a projected disability will be born, when more often than not, they are severely underestimating what that fetus will be able to do once it becomes a child and then an adult. But in the end I have to support a woman's choice to abort, just as I support a severely disabled person's right to choose life or death. I don't know where I stand in terms of making that choice for someone else who hasn't had the chance to express their own desires. We all have a right to make a choice within our own lives, and I have to support that even if I disagree vehemently with another person's choice.
Why does that make you ill? That 92% of down babies who were aborted might have given way to hundreds of healthy babies who go on to live fulfilling, satisfying lives in which they can contribute and make a difference in the world.
Eugenics is an entirely different debate as well. Trust me there will come a time if humanity keeps "progressing" the way it is that we are going to have to take a serious look at "eugenics". Like I said future eugenics could mean the difference between living mortality and immortality. Philosophically speaking do you feel everyone has a natural right to live forever? We as human beings are our own worst enemy that's for sure.
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But the jury is still out on things like euthanasia.
