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I think where it will have bearing on the case is the part about if you're in fear for your life you have to exhaust every reasonable effort to escape rather than using lethal force. I think the size of each individual, whatever evidence there is from the autopsy as to the position of the gun when it was fired, and as someone else pointed out whether either of them had health issues, or whether Trayvon had alcohol or drugs in his syste, etc., etc., will be explored in trial if it goes to trial.
Well if that's the case (and I don't think it is hence Stand Your Ground) then the same could be said for Trayvon, if he did indeed initiate violent contact. He could have simply ran home he was close enough.
I have a theory on how they ended up in the physical altercation, but I'll just skip to the gun part, my theory is that they both had their hands on the gun (on the ground, TM on top), but GZ was in a better position to get his finger on the trigger, (this would very much depend on the trigger action ?? of his gun) I don't think he "per se" aimed the gun, I theorize that the gun was in-between them (chest high) TM would not let go and was gaining more control over that weapon and GZ was able to press the barrel up against TM's chest and pull the trigger. At the hearing it was revealed that TM's sweatshirt had stippling on it confirming a close contact shot...
This sounds plausible and is in line with Zimmerman's contention that Martin was going for the gun.
I have a theory on how they ended up in the physical altercation, but I'll just skip to the gun part, my theory is that they both had their hands on the gun (on the ground, TM on top), but GZ was in a better position to get his finger on the trigger, (this would very much depend on the trigger action ?? of his gun) I don't think he "per se" aimed the gun, I theorize that the gun was in-between them (chest high) TM would not let go and was gaining more control over that weapon and GZ was able to press the barrel up against TM's chest and pull the trigger. At the hearing it was revealed that TM's sweatshirt had stippling on it confirming a close contact shot...
I just read the CNN partial transcript of the investigator's testimony from the bail hearing and he testified that Zimmerman gave inconsistent statements and that in one of them he (Zim) said that during the struggle that Trayvon put both hands over his nose and mouth and he couldn't breath. He said at that point he was suddenly able to scoot (I think) away from the cement and get away from Trayvon, but Trayvon was grabbing for the gun and that's when he shot him. The investigator also said that that scenario did not match the evidence they (the State) has.
From my reading of that partial transcript, the SA investigator did not say what many people took away from the testimony, and in fact made it clear that the State has much more evidence than they were revealing at that hearing. He did not bring any notes or investigative reports with him to the hearing, and he is NOT REQUIRED to do so, and he didn't remember a lot of stuff because he didn't have his info with him (other than the probable cause affidavit) to review. THAT IS TYPICAL. People do not have to take notes with them to the witness stand to testify.
You would think the police would have hauled him off to the hospital for CYA purposes, if nothing else.
Do a google search. That is what GZ's brother is claiming.
I am an RN in pediatrics as well. We don't shrug off head injuries like that. True, if they don't call us, we don't know about it. However, if we talk to someone with a suspected HI with bleeding head wounds, we generally advise them to come in.
I meant teen aged boys shrug it off and don't tell for fear of looking weak. If a medical professional knows of course they are encouraged to come in for evaluation.
Well if that's the case (and I don't think it is hence Stand Your Ground) then the same could be said for Trayvon, if he did indeed initiate violent contact. He could have simply ran home he was close enough.
Trayvon is not on trial. He is dead. The State most likely will try to prove that Zimmerman did not make every reasonable effort to escape from the fight prior to using deadly force.
As for whether or not it is the case, Tiluha posted the law which states that before one uses deadly force they have to exhaust every reasonable effort to escape the situation....she posted the text and the link a few pages back.
Here is the link to Tiluha's post which includes the statute. Check out the part that explains the you must exhaust every reasonable effort to escape before you shoot.
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
Last edited by FancyFeast5000; 04-24-2012 at 10:24 PM..
Reason: added link
There are ways to encourage "consent". If he had been injured as badly as his brother professes, he would have had an "altered level of consciousness".
This is not true. Some head injuries manifest symptoms hours after. Lots of times kids with head injuiries in the hospital are on an hour check for pupil changes, altered awareness, etc etc which can occur hours later if a slow bleed in the brain.
Anyway who gives a fig what the brother had to say unless GZ agreed and made a public statement saying he did.
I just read the CNN partial transcript of the investigator's testimony from the bail hearing and he testified that Zimmerman gave inconsistent statements and that in one of them he (Zim) said that during the struggle that Trayvon put both hands over his nose and mouth and he couldn't breath. He said at that point he was suddenly able to scoot (I think) away from the cement and get away from Trayvon, but Trayvon was grabbing for the gun and that's when he shot him. The investigator also said that that scenario did not match the evidence they (the State) has.
From my reading of that partial transcript, the SA investigator did not say what many people took away from the testimony, and in fact made it clear that the State has much more evidence than they were revealing at that hearing. He did not bring any notes or investigative reports with him to the hearing, and he is NOT REQUIRED to do so, and he didn't remember a lot of stuff because he didn't have his info with him (other than the probable cause affidavit) to review. THAT IS TYPICAL. People do not have to take notes with them to the witness stand to testify.
Under cross he conformired what GZ's account of the night was accurate and they say they have no witnesses to disprove it.
This is not true. Some head injuries manifest symptoms hours after. Lots of times kids with head injuiries in the hospital are on an hour check for pupil changes, altered awareness, etc etc which can occur hours later if a slow bleed in the brain.
Anyway who gives a fig what the brother had to say unless GZ agreed and made a public statement saying he did.
True, but I think he would have looked a little more beat up than he did geting out of the police car.
I believe the brother has made public statements; that's how we know what he said!
Trayvon is not on trial. He is dead. The State most likely will try to prove that Zimmerman did not make every reasonable effort to escape from the fight prior to using deadly force.
He was on his back being attacked, how do you propose one retreats while on your back with someone on top of you?
GZ should of at that point turned gopher and somehow dug his way under the cement his head was being hit against?
Rediculous, the state is in trouble trying to say it is reasonable he could have gotten out of that.
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