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Your thinking is flawed. The SYG law protects Zimmerman in every way. Martin provided instigation for Zimmerman to act in order to protect his life in a routine neighborhood watch patrol.
nope, it does not. You will see that you are the one with flawed thinking when the Judge sentences Zimmerman.
Stand your ground does NOT give anyone the right to hunt someone and kill them.
It works the other way around buddy. SYG would have protected Martin in this case
based on him being followed (according to Zimmerman) and attacked (based on him turning up dead). Look I am all for making the streets safer, But I not only want the streets safe from thugs who rob, but I want the streets safe from thugs like Zimmerman too.
Zimmerman falsely assumed Martin was up to no good, he killed an innocent person, he is no different that a robber who kills. Fact of the matter is, he made the streets more dangerous for a mother's child than he made it safe.
A responsible WATCH person would have done just that, Watch, report and keep your distance.
Neighborhood watch people are not authorized to police the streets.
You are completely wrong in your assessment.Florida 2011 Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE[23] 776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
And there is confusion on the part of the people who authored that law as well as the governor who signed it regarding how it applies. All I can say is that it's a very bad law and needs serious modification or to be repealed. Too many unintended consequences taking place.
"The men responsible for Florida's controversial "stand your ground'' law are certain about one thing: Because of his actions before he pulled the trigger and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman is not protected from criminal prosecution."
According to the article from the above link, ultimately even the people who wrote the law didn't know what the results could be. Also, it seems the opinion of the author of the article, that it all comes down to the 60 seconds prior to shooting the gun.
I would think in the Zimmerman case that could mean that Zimmerman's credibility is critical, as well as maybe expert testimony regarding the extent of Zimmerman's injuries?
based on him being followed (according to Zimmerman) and attacked (based on him turning up dead). Look I am all for making the streets safer, But I not only want the streets safe from thugs who rob, but I want the streets safe from thugs like Zimmerman too.
Zimmerman falsely assumed Martin was up to no good, he killed an innocent person, he is no different that a robber who kills. Fact of the matter is, he made the streets more dangerous for a mother's child than he made it safe.
A responsible WATCH person would have done just that, Watch, report and keep your distance.
Neighborhood watch people are not authorized to police the streets.
Seems to me that SYG is a very poorly written law and there have been some awful unintended consequences as a result. The people who authored the law did a really bad job of thinking it through, IMO.
Florida statute 776.013(3) says: (a) person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
I found the article in the link below quite interesting.
Zimmerman was keeping his distance. In fact he was at a distance so that he couldn't make out what color he was when asked by the dispatcher. Only when Martin showed aggresive tendencies after spotting Zimmerman watching him from the confines of his truck that he turned and started heading towards Zimmerman (who was talking to the 911 dispatcher) that Zim could make him out and confirm he was black. Zimmerman said Martins hand was reaching in his wasteband thus putting fear in Zimmerman. Then Martin decided to run. Why? Because he was up to nefarious reasons and had stolen jewelry on him. Martin was also pacing houses in a rain storm. Zimmerman was made aware that blacks had burglarized recently as described by the black neighbor. Martin doubled back and attacked Zim bashing his skull into the concrete. That was witnessed by neighbors. Zimmerman was armed due to his 2nd Amendment rights afforded by the U.S. Constitution and took action to preserve his life. That action was also backed by Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' Law. Zimmerman will prevail. Top U.S. Constitutional attorneys and scholars have weighed in on the case. Zimmerman will walk according to them.
You have been asking me this, now it is my turn to ask, "how the heck do you know what happened?"
all we know is that Zimmerman was following the dude even after being told not to.
And that Zimmerman shot and killed the dude.
Had Zimmerman just been walking and jumped then he would have had a SYG defense.SYG does not protect stupidity and bravado.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyFeast5000
Seems to me that SYG is a very poorly written law and there have been some awful unintended consequences as a result. The people who authored the law did a really bad job of thinking it through, IMO.
Florida statute 776.013(3) says: (a) person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
I found the article in the link below quite interesting.
the key section of the law is in bold. Zimmerman has the right to be on that street but he has no right to put himself in danger. Zimmerman lost the SYG protection by putting himself in Danger. He is in a freaking vehicle. You don't get out of the car towards someone you think is dangerous and then say you are standing your ground. That is BS.
Zimmerman was keeping his distance. In fact he was at a distance so that he couldn't make out what color he was when asked by the dispatcher. Only when Martin showed aggresive tendencies after spotting Zimmerman watching him from the confines of his truck that he turned and started heading towards Zimmerman (who was talking to the 911 dispatcher) that Zim could make him out and confirm he was black. Zimmerman said Martins hand was reaching in his wasteband thus putting fear in Zimmerman. Then Martin decided to run. Why? Because he was up to nefarious reasons and had stolen jewelry on him. Martin was also pacing houses in a rain storm. Zimmerman was made aware that blacks had burglarized recently as described by the black neighbor. Martin doubled back and attacked Zim bashing his skull into the concrete. That was witnessed by neighbors. Zimmerman was armed due to his 2nd Amendment rights afforded by the U.S. Constitution and took action to preserve his life. That action was also backed by Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' Law. Zimmerman will prevail. Top U.S. Constitutional attorneys and scholars have weighed in on the case. Zimmerman will walk according to them.
Do you have any links regarding which top U.S. Constitutional attorneys and scholars (plural) have weighed in on this case and have pronounced Zimmerman immune to prosecution?
I'm aware that Alan Dershowitz has had a lot to say, so I'm asking for additional attorneys and Constitutional scholars who have weighed in and come to the conclusion you stated above.
Unfortunately, you may be correct, despite your analysis. Seems to me that SYG is an extremely poorly written law, and the whole Zimmerman incident may come down to just "60 seconds" prior to firing the gun and Zimmerman's state of mind at that time. Of course, when Zimmerman makes any statement regarding his fear of being killed, his credibility will or should be a major factor for the judge determining whether or not to grant immunity.
p.s. Your above scenario for what happened between Zimmerman and Martin does not even match up with the little bit of information the media has reported. How do you "know" what happened?
You have been asking me this, now it is my turn to ask, "how the heck do you know what happened?"
all we know is that Zimmerman was following the dude even after being told not to.
And that Zimmerman shot and killed the dude.
Had Zimmerman just been walking and jumped then he would have had a SYG defense.SYG does not protect stupidity and bravado.
the key section of the law is in bold. Zimmerman has the right to be on that street but he has no right to put himself in danger. Zimmerman lost the SYG protection by putting himself in Danger. He is in a freaking vehicle. You don't get out of the car towards someone you think is dangerous and then say you are standing your ground. That is BS.
I agree. Unfortunately, the SYG law in Florida may be so poorly written that it is stupidity itself. Far, far too broad.
I agree. Unfortunately, the SYG law in Florida may be so poorly written that it is stupidity itself. Far, far too broad.
hopefully this will be the outrage needed to change the law. Multiple states are looking at their own SYG laws now and revising them. Florida's is the most draconian though
nope, it does not. You will see that you are the one with flawed thinking when the Judge sentences Zimmerman.
Stand your ground does NOT give anyone the right to hunt someone and kill them.
It works the other way around buddy. SYG would have protected Martin in this case
Hunt someone down??? All in your head.
"Florida 2011 Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE[23] 776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony"
.......Bashing someones head into the ground is enough justification before he split GZ's head open and walked over his dead body.
In other words, if you carried a gun, someone was bashing your head to the ground, you felt your life in danger,you would send him butterfly kisses???????
hopefully this will be the outrage needed to change the law. Multiple states are looking at their own SYG laws now and revising them. Florida's is the most draconian though
Absolutely. Hopefully the task force which is looking into the law will make some good recommendations in terms of changing this nightmare law.
I believe Florida's SYG law was the first one passed in the country. It apparently was the result of a lot of work and lobbying by a Florida resident who was the first woman president of NRA. She seems to get a lot of credit for it.
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All in your head.
