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Old 05-31-2012, 03:14 PM
 
77,756 posts, read 59,900,878 times
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Two excellent posts which I agree with 100%.

I commented wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy back when this whole thing was breaking about why mr. neighborhood watch didn't just carry a taser or mace instead. The incompetant failed mall-cop had no business roaming the neighborhood playing hero and should never ever have left his car.

 
Old 05-31-2012, 03:19 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,268 posts, read 18,837,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
I do not ever remember anyone saying Zimmerman sounded intoxicated. We have all heard the tapes over and over; he didn't seem intoxicated to me, he didn't even seem out of control in anyway. You obviously want to believe it was all his fault and poor T was just being a typical kid, minding his own business. Do you forget there had been a lot of burglaries in the area? Have you seen the pictures of Zimmerman's face and head? If you have, you certainly must realize there are 2 sides to this story. I admit, at first I was convinced Zimmerman was the thug, I have since changed my mind. Do I think he over reacted? Yes, but should he or will he be found guilty of murder? Absolutely not.

You have also asked if carrying a gun makes people safer? I have no idea, I have never owned a gun, never intend on owning one and certainly would not carry a concealed one, but I have no problem with others who do.

Nita
Like others on this thread, you are taking everything I wrote completely out of context.

First I asked if testing is protocol after a shooting. Then I asked, if it is, why didn't the police test Zimmerman?

Then the only answer I get from the peanut gallery is that I'm out to get George Zimmerman and want him convicted of murder.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, if he was intoxicated, he wouldn't be convicted of murder. A drunk driver who causes a fatal accident is usually charged with negligent homicide, since there was no malicious intent.

I feel as if I'm Wolf Blitzer asking Donald Trump about Obama's birth certificate. Trump says there are many, many officials who believe it isn't legitimate. Wolf asks him to name just one. Trump says he doesn't give names.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 03:20 PM
 
8,560 posts, read 6,381,353 times
Reputation: 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncc49 View Post
Your posts just get more and more ridiculous.
You think that because?? You don't like the information? lol Saying something is ridiculous doesn't make it so. That's just a silly opinion.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 03:34 PM
 
8,560 posts, read 6,381,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncc49 View Post
Yes it was posted by that user, however if new facts come out that don't fit a certain narrative, we just get more drivel muddling the scenario and twisting it as the media has done and seems to now be trying to correct and back peddle on.
You know, now that I think about it, there is something IMO that's pretty significant about the information contained in the prosecutor's interview of the girl who was talking on the phone with Trayvon when this incident happen.

It has been reported that she said she heard Trayvon say "Why are you following me".....so Zimmerman was following Trayvon according to that witness. Then she says she heard the response to Trayvon's question, the other person saying "What are you doing here"?.....and that indicates that Zimmerman escalated the situation. The witness is also reported to have said she heard Trayvon saying "get off, get off".......then the phone was cut off. Unless there is any other witness who contradicts this, that kind of testimony could certainly go a very long way in convincing a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started the fight with those words and that Zimmerman's version that he walked away then Trayvon followed him is likely not to be true.

Zimmerman could not only have avoided this situation by staying in his vehicle and waiting for the police, but the information provided by the witness on the phone with Trayvon at the time Zimmerman encountered Trayvon indicates that Zimmerman had a SECOND CHANCE to avoid the fight and death. IF Zimmerman had simply responded to Trayvon's question regarding why he was following him by saying he lived in the community, didn't recognize Trayvon, etc., etc.......seems to me it's a reasonable conclusion to think that there most likely would have been no fight and no death.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 03:39 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,268 posts, read 18,837,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyFeast5000 View Post
Y
Zimmerman could not only have avoided this situation by staying in his vehicle and waiting for the police, but the information provided by the witness on the phone with Trayvon at the time Zimmerman encountered Trayvon indicates that Zimmerman had a SECOND CHANCE to avoid the fight and death. IF Zimmerman had simply responded to Trayvon's question regarding why he was following him by saying he lived in the community, didn't recognize Trayvon, etc., etc.......seems to me it's a reasonable conclusion to think that there most likely would have been no fight and no death.
Exactly! One of the police reports in the mounds of evidence states that by identifying himself as a concerned resident or the neighborhood watch captain, the shooting could have been completely avoided.

I once posted that I don't understand why GZ didn't say something to TM while he was on the phone with 911. In fact, we know he saw TM walking while he driving to Target. So he was in his vehicle and had a gun. Why didn't he call out the window from a safe distance? Of course TM thought he was creepy! Also, GZ was following him on foot while he was on the phone with the police dispatcher and he never called out to TM.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 03:52 PM
 
812 posts, read 593,021 times
Reputation: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyFeast5000 View Post
Based on what we know up to this point, seems to me it is more likely that Zimmerman went up to Trayvon, made verbal contact, and that's where the fight started. I don't think Zimmerman ever broke that initial contact and I don't think Trayvon followed him anywhere. And let me add, at this point we do NOT know what all of the evidence is in this case because it has not all been released yet.
If that was the correct scenario I would say z has problems. If I were a juror I might be swayed to then question as tactics regards perception of his duties/responsibilities to the homeowners association or even to himself if he acted on his own.
If I had recently endured a robbery at my own residence and in agreement with other neighbors agreed to watch out for the neighborhood I would not have approached the young man and made even a passive inquiry of him.

My sense is you are going to be disappointed in the outcome/findings in that regard. If that is the case z is not only irresponsible but a liar. Having made that concession I wouldn't take that to the bank because I doubt it is the case based upon what was surely without a doubt a reactionary attack.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 04:01 PM
 
8,560 posts, read 6,381,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post
Exactly! One of the police reports in the mounds of evidence states that by identifying himself as a concerned resident or the neighborhood watch captain, the shooting could have been completely avoided.

I once posted that I don't understand why GZ didn't say something to TM while he was on the phone with 911. In fact, we know he saw TM walking while he driving to Target. So he was in his vehicle and had a gun. Why didn't he call out the window from a safe distance? Of course TM thought he was creepy! Also, GZ was following him on foot while he was on the phone with the police dispatcher and he never called out to TM.
Has it been posted previously, or has anyone reported, the time the phone call ended between Trayvon and his friend? I'm thinking that the time between when the phone call was cut off and the time the gunshot was heard by residents calling 911 and recorded just may be significant evidence. Was it possible for Zimmerman to end his conversation with Trayvon at the time the phone call was cut off, then start back to his car, for Trayvon to circle around behind some buildings, jump out and attack Zimmerman, pin him on the ground, beat him up, and then Zimmerman to shoot him in that period of time - the period of time between when the call was cut off and the time the gunshot was heard.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
8,145 posts, read 6,505,610 times
Reputation: 1754
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyso40 View Post
You never, ever confront somebody when you are carrying unless somebodys life is imminently in jeopardy! Some people speak of being emboldened when carrying a firearm!. Carrying actually makes me more apprehensive, I look to avoid confrontation. Zimmerman may have had no choice but to use his weapon after the fact, however, I can clearly see why he failed out of police training.
Man I hesitated to click on this thread but then you made a great point. It took me a long time to see that laws and jail sentences are there as much to send a message as to serve justice.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 04:03 PM
 
812 posts, read 593,021 times
Reputation: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
I cannot say that he was positively profiling based on race, but I can say without a doubt the fact that he was NOT on duty (his father said that he was on his way to Target) and secondly he should not have been "patrolling" with a loaded gun (this is against the NHW rules) beside like I mentioned before, who goes to Kmart with a loaded gun?

Ok, now how did you figure that Trayvon approached zimmerman? come on now does that really make any sense? If you are a vistor in the dark/rain and you realize that some grown unknown man is following you would yould you approach him unarmed? I lived in a pretty tough neighborhood and I knew guys who were armed and they would not walk up on someone they did not know like zimmerman did. Your arguement is better suited in defense of Trayvon than it is of zimmerman regarding personal space
Depends on Ts character. If he was a young tuff or thought he was he might have been immature enough to jump the gun. If you were to meet me you would probably see me as pretty harmless looking and if you wanted to take advantage you might think you would be successful. The thuggery had better take some lessons from this event va whole bunch of folks I know, especially in this brave new world are prepared for self defense. The most unlikely looking are the likeliest to light you up.

We will fid out Sime but I think talkin through this that both sides have moderated the extreme positions I saw earlier in the discussion. The one thing I remain stoic about is each persons right to self defense even if the reaction is lethal. I personally would not kill for property but I definitely would in self defense. In the words of George carlin, I don't give no sh t and I don't take no sh t. Fair enough.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 04:10 PM
 
8,560 posts, read 6,381,353 times
Reputation: 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by valerie d View Post
If that was the correct scenario I would say z has problems. If I were a juror I might be swayed to then question as tactics regards perception of his duties/responsibilities to the homeowners association or even to himself if he acted on his own.
If I had recently endured a robbery at my own residence and in agreement with other neighbors agreed to watch out for the neighborhood I would not have approached the young man and made even a passive inquiry of him.

My sense is you are going to be disappointed in the outcome/findings in that regard. If that is the case z is not only irresponsible but a liar. Having made that concession I wouldn't take that to the bank because I doubt it is the case based upon what was surely without a doubt a reactionary attack.
I'm not going to disappointed either way. I'm just interested in hearing the evidence from the courtroom and learning at the end the verdict by the jury, whatever that is.

That said, there is witness testimony given by the person on the phone with Trayvon at the time Zimmerman approached him who says she heard Trayvon say, "Why are you following me"? Then she heard a response saying "What are you doing here"? Zimmerman didn't identify himself at that point as someone who lived in the community who was concerned about strangers in the area. It has been reported that this witness also says that she heard Trayvon say "get off, get off." There have been no other reports of any witnesses who could contradict this information. AS I said, taking only what information we have now about this case and the evidence, I think the testimony of this particular witness would go a long way in creating reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury that Zimmerman's statements are true.

Again, having said that, none of us will know if this witness will be called to testify or not and we don't know how well she would stand up to cross examination. The same can be said of Zimmerman, as he would be the only witness available to contradict Trayvon's friend's account of what she heard on the phone.

My personal opinion at this point is that the telephone witness could very well be a major witness in the State's case.
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