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Can't rep you, so I just say, you are spot on... except.
I to do not believe that "race" played a conscious role in Zimmerman's actions but psychological study after studies has clearly demonstrated that race plays a significant role in the folks cognition whether they wise to acknowledge it or not or even if they are even conscious of it. But having said that, when it comes to too many of the comments on this thread, I think that it is readily apparent that too many posters are fully conscious of their racial predilections.
Yes, otherwise they would be able to understand that Zimmermen committed no crime.
Yes, otherwise they would be able to understand that Zimmermen committed no crime.
Or that it is quite possible that he did. If he hadn't killed someone, his fate would not be in the hands of the judge/jury. BTW, do you have access to evidence that the rest of us do not or were you there the night that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin? Just wondering what makes you so sure.
Or that it is quite possible that he did. If he hadn't killed someone, his fate would not be in the hands of the judge/jury. BTW, do you have access to evidence that the rest of us do not or were you there the night that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin? Just wondering what makes you so sure.
I am not sure if he is guilty. I am 100% sure there is beyond reasonable doubt. What magical piece of evidence could clear up all the unknowns in this case?
[snip]One thing that's apparent is that race plays a big part in the way people are reacting to this case. The victim wasn't doing a darn thing, yet people keep finding new ways of degrading his character. That's when race begins to play a big role IMHO. Posts that call Trayvon a thug or even go as far as to assume he would probably be in a gang some day or commit a crime (so George did society a favor) are obviously racist. [snip].
Our memories differ about the early threads on this topic. Race was brought up immediately, long before anyone knew about tm's suspensions or degrading him individually. It was all, the white guy can kill the black child and walk, he'd have been arrested if the colors were reversed, a racist police force. Maybe those claims are true, but race was big from the start. Degrading or comments about tm as a person were not the cause of race playing a big role.
[quote=Sun Thinker;25003787]The trajectory doesn't really indicate anything in this instance, inconclusive. Trayvon could have been in such a position that a straight, close shot was indeed possible. Initially, the police interviewer appeared suspicious, or at least bewildered, as to how GZ could have gotten his gun out to shoot. It was a very awkward explanation, but plausible.
As to the body position? That is indeed baffling, and contradicts in most every way GZ's statements. I don;t have handy the report that stated how far away from the sidewalk the body was. But in one or two statements, GZ mentioned that TM was holding his nose and mouth with both hands, which presumably would have made it quite difficult to shout out, especially the fifty or so times he said he did yell for help. But TM was found face down, GZ straddling over him, with his hand on TM's back.
GZ stated that TM was cursing him, while he pinned TM's arms out to his side. When the police found the body, TM's hands were underneath his body. A very loose end in an otherwise generally-believable scenario.
Will we ever have the answer to this? Also note that in GZ's first police interview at headquarters, he stated that Trayvon had covered his mouth and nose with both hands, while shouting expletives. I don't think GZ ever mentioned being "punched" or "hit" during that interview, with the exception of being punched in the nose first off./]
Trayvon would have been able to do very little after the shot; as another poster noted, the hollow point bullet ripped through his right ventricle. Martin was dead within seconds, and had neither the time nor the breath to say anything, much less continue to talk to Zimmerman. There is just something about the bullet's path that doesn't ring true; awkward but plausible, as you say. The trajectory and the position of Martin's body seems logical only if the two were standing when the shot was fired, but life often defies logic. The bits and pieces of information that we have with which to work leave much in doubt, although it's clearer regarding Serino's doubts about Zimmerman's conflicting stories that night: Trayvon Martin would have needed several arms in order to make Zimmerman's stories consistent. Will we ever know the truth? I would like to believe that forensic tests and witness statements of which we're unaware might explain through blood splatter or the words of the first people on scene after the shooting a more credible and complete story. The number of people who assume that Martin somehow merited death is shocking; as others have noted, some are willing to overlook Zimmerman's observable lies, past history with LE, spotty work record and mixed ethnicity, all of which are usually anathema to white racists. Perhaps they coined the term "White Hispanic" to refer to Zimmerman. Oddly, there seem to be frequent references to Black rioting from certain posters; people who simply want to see how Martin's death is explicable have no investment in violence, IMO.
Our memories differ about the early threads on this topic. Race was brought up immediately, long before anyone knew about tm's suspensions or degrading him individually. It was all, the white guy can kill the black child and walk, he'd have been arrested if the colors were reversed, a racist police force. Maybe those claims are true, but race was big from the start. Degrading or comments about tm as a person were not the cause of race playing a big role.
imo.
Jazz, it is incredible how people are blinded by their own prejudices. The Traevangelists would have you believe: Zimmerman stalked intimidated verbally disparaged closed ranks on Trayvon. Not one shred of information any of that is true. Not one shred except fertile imaginations. Those fertile imaginations are of an organic type if you know what I mean. Green, sticky smelly fertile imaginations tracked all over the carpet of self defense, defense of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Defense of property. No one told Trayvon the best alternative for handling what he perceived as a transgression was to ambush Zimmerman and try to kill him, " your going to die tonight mrfr". What man or woman among us, being pounded to the point of breaking Zs nose and bludgeoning the back of his head to where he felt he would pass out. Screaming for help and hearing, "your going to die tonight mfr". Who among us having access to a weapon would not pull that weapon and shoot wildly into the night?
I'll tell you who, each and every person reading this if they are honest. If they set aside their racial prejudices of an adult man,profiling an innocent teenager. An innocent teenager that had been profiled by a national news network as an innocent cherub like child that could pass for the son of none other than the messiah of the race baiting world, Barack Hussein Obama. An innocent teenager that had the toxic drug marijuana cousing in his veins. An innocent teenager that was visiting an upscale neighborhood in the sleepy suburbs of Stanford Florida after having been expelled from the uncivil corridors of another non performing unsupervised public school in Miami Florida, one of the cousest and meanest drug and sex oriented cities in our great nation.
George Zimmerman, a champion of freedom loving people everywhere whose simple wish is to live in safety, and harmony without burglaries and gang bangers and drug peddlers in their sleepy little upscale hard working community of Sanford Florida. A community that thrives on the rewards of going to work five, six, seven days a week and asks only they be rewarded with safe and secure neighborhoods. To be safe from the mean streets , safe from the rough and tumble of the dysfunctional inner city crime labs like Jacksonville, Miami, Chicago.
What is that which separates Sanford Florida from these cesspools of human misery where young children are shot in their strollers or even from their fathers arms. I'll tell you what separates Sanford from the cesspools of inner city violence and disregard for property and innocent life. It is neighborhood volunteers, fearless and zealous in their efforts at assisting the aged, the weak, the absentee hard working fathers and mothers from coming home and finding their homes broken into, homes vandalized, hard earned treasures stolen and squandered on the street at fifty cent on the dollar in order to promote squalid drug habits, to support the cool gangsta lifestyle of gangsta music, gangsta dressing showing the cracks of their little gangsta asses, gangsta drugs. Exporting this gangsta behavior to the quiet, sleepy ,hard working, wholly civil streets of Sanford, Fl.
Who can we thank across this vast land of free red states, free from the over populated inner city, families with absentee parentage, exporting the vile behavior of drugs, alcohol, and foul language. I'll tell you who! It is the George Zimmermans of the world that is who we can thank. Unpaid, under appreciated. Had young George not come under attack we would never have known about his selfless dedication of time and energy to securing the quiet streets of Sanford, Fl.
Should we feel badly for the death of young Trayvon Martin? Of course. This should never have happened. Right now across this land every day as we gather around the supper table and sit down to mentor our children this tragic story should become a part of our dialogue with our children. What is the lesson? If you are threatened get away as fast as you can. Seek safe shelter call your mother, your father, if your parents are no where to be found, call a neighbor, call the police. If you don't have a cell phone scream at the top of your lungs. Never but never approach a strange man that is following you if you do not know his motive for following you. Never go close to such a man. Have him arrested and file charges.
On the other hand, if you ever find yourself on neighborhood watch. Take a camera with a telescopic lens, call 911 and stay in your car!
Yes, otherwise they would be able to understand that Zimmermen committed no crime.
This is the type statement that smacks of total denial. You chastise Trayvon for possibly hitting someone (again...George is the one saying Trayvon hit him, and he is a proven liar)following, and harassing him. But, totally applaud George for shooting someone dead?? It is like one poster said earlier this week. It appears that you can stalk up to someone in a menacing manner, and if there is any type altercation, even if you start it... you can cry foul, shoot them....and walk away unscathed. What is wrong w/ this picture.
And, honestly....the way some folks attack other posters just because we believe differently, I can see that a few folks may take advantage of this type scenario...Lots of hotheads....no substantive evidence....just because i said so types. I can hardly wait for the trial.
TM was 17 years old. Have you ever parented a 17 year old? They make a lot of dumb decisions. Doesn't mean they should be killed.
Yes, I have parented a 17 year old who did something stupid, talked crap to someone with a gun. My son was shot. He now has a titanium rod in place of his femur. An inch and a half was the difference between life and death. The assailant spent about 18 months in prison. No SYG law applied.
17 year olds do stupid things. Rarely, but occassionally they get themselves killed.
Two people being stupid collided. One ended up dead. Zimmerman was stupid and irresponsible. There should be a law governing what he did. There is not.
Two people being stupid collided. One ended up dead. Zimmerman was stupid and irresponsible. There should be a law governing what he did. There is not.
We don't know if the victim did anything stupid, do we? Maybe he was trying to be cool or maybe he was fighting for his life! Yes, we can see that GZ had some injuries, but none of them were very serious. The only thing we know is that he followed someone and shot him. We don't know for a fact why Trayvon Martin hit him.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 07-03-2012 at 08:07 PM..
Reason: deleted quoted post
This is the type statement that smacks of total denial. You chastise Trayvon for possibly hitting someone (again...George is the one saying Trayvon hit him, and he is a proven liar)following, and harassing him. But, totally applaud George for shooting someone dead?? It is like one poster said earlier this week. It appears that you can stalk up to someone in a menacing manner, and if there is any type altercation, even if you start it... you can cry foul, shoot them....and walk away unscathed. What is wrong w/ this picture.
And, honestly....the way some folks attack other posters just because we believe differently, I can see that a few folks may take advantage of this type scenario...Lots of hotheads....no substantive evidence....just because i said so types. I can hardly wait for the trial.
When did I totally applaud George? Is calling him stupid and irresponsible "applauding". All I said is George broke no law. I did not break any laws today, I am betting you went through the day yourself without breaking any laws. It is hardly worthy of applause.
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