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Many people (usually from a certain political party) love to bash pretty much everything that has happened in the country ever since 9/11.
I would love to hear some opinions of what the proper response should've been and what you believe it would've lead to.
This does not have to come from only one side and all opinions are welcome. I promise I will respect everyone's opinion, even though most people here usually don't extend that same courtesy to others..
I'll start with my opinion. I believe we did almost everything in Afghanistan by the book. We had popular opinion on our side, a visible enemy, and the behind the scenes action between SF ops and local tribal leaders was textbook. Only bad thing was we didn't continue the non-stop pace long enough and someone didn't squeeze Musharraf's you know whats hard enough...
The problem with Iraq was the entire thing was run wrong. Obviously all the good planners worked Afghanistan and the crappy backup squad was left to run Iraq. First major problem was embedding reporters. At first it seemed like a brilliant idea because we were there with them, from the safety of our living rooms... It gave the average Joe a taste of how things actually are and it was unscripted and uncensored.. The beginning of the war had full support and was yet another American success story, but then the mistakes started happening.. First we didn't get rid of the reporters. As soon as things started getting a little nasty they started showing it to the people back home. Suddenly war wasn't all shock and awe and the dirty, nasty side of it began to unfold. Then the Pentagon started to appease the media and started to soften up. and that was pretty much the beginning of the end.. the whole thing became wussified and good gave into bad, right allowed wrong to succeed and we're where we are now..
We don't have the same media situation we did back in WWII, or even the first Gulf War. What that means is that a lot of the footage you see from Iraq comes from Iraqi cameramen themselves. Some comes from Iraq's own insurgents. Some is first aired on Arab media then translated and re-aired on western broadcasts. Even if you expelled every western reporter from Iraq, images of nasty stuff FROM Iraq would be prevalent. Hell, even average Iraqi citizens are taking cellphone videos of things and uploading them.
Information in the modern age is simply freer and less restrictable than it used to be. If people suspect that the mainstream media is holding back, they'll just visit websites that publish the 'unvarnished stories.'
I would love to hear some opinions of what the proper response should've been and what you believe it would've lead to.
I had just left home, for work, when a co-worker called me on my cell to announce... 'an airplane has hit the WTC...' and then without much hesitation, report of the second tower being hit . I replied, without a thought, 'Well, it better be terrorists', explaining that if it weren't terrorists then we had a big problem with the FAA. That was my response - terrorists. Not Afghanistan, no Iraq, not Russia, not Bush, not... you can name a thousand things not, but - terrorists.
My mind understood and filtered immediately to who or what would mount such an attack where none would be justified. So, what would have been the proper response? My first thought was to open a glass factory east of the Dead Sea. A really HUGE glass factory. U.S. Glass and A$$ - 'get and grind yours here'. But then, better minds took over.
To remove the Taliban from its reign of terror over the Afghans was probably a good idea as a start but certainly wouldn't stop that as yet not fully defined terrorist element that would just keep coming. An element that had been taking aim for thirty years or more. Who in their right mind would think that this terrorist element would be confined to Afghanistan? So next stop, where are they?
Well, some of them are in our backyards, camping out so to speak. but a whole lot of them are hidiing out in the sand pits. You know, the Middle East. Just everywhere there's been jihadist activity - they are there. Now, my practice in cleaning house is to trend everything towards the kitchen, that being the last room to clean. I don't think any person in any country, and more especially the U.N., would have supported invading France, so we've got to pick the next best option, the bar-b-que pit, Iraq.
We all know that the entire Middle East is a hot bed of 'anti-west' activity, to be kind. Some parts are hotter than others, some deserving of some extreme U.S. heat even more so. So where do I want to set up shop to start cleaning up? As I said, Iraq is a good place. After all, the U.S. put the guy in office, we can just take back the keys to the palace, all of 'em.
Sure, OBL took someone's good idea and turned it into a plan, organized necessary activities and took a chance. One man, one chance. Yeah, right. There's a thousand bad guys out there with 10,000 bad ideas each to throw at us. Every day. Right now, the U.S. is sitting in the hottest pot of nasty any government and its military has ever sat in and it's the right place and it's doing the right thing. If the U.S. doesn't continue to eliminate terrorist activity where it lives then we can just forget about 'thinking about tomorrow', cause at some point it just ain't gonna come.
Most people agree invading Afghanistan as a response to the 911 attacks were accurate myself included. Instead of finishing the job there, we mistakenly used 911 as an excuse to invade Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 911. The one thing the Taliban was good for was outlawing heroin production. Now, that's back in full force because our troops have been diverted to Iraq. Allowing bin Ladin to escape when we had him cornered.
Here's just the first batch of mistakes:
1. The first mistake was actually invading Iraq without support of the international community as in the first Gulf War.
2. No knowledge of the different Muslim sects, or dismissing out of hand advisors who were knowledgable on the subject.
3. Trying to make the case that bin Ladin and Saddam were in cahoots. Example: a meeting between Mohammed Atta and a Iraq representative in Romania, checked and proved to be false. Allowing Colin Powell to present false information regarding trailers housing bio weapons (later proved to be used for weather purposes
4.Listening to Ahmed Chalabi and his band of refugees who said we would be greeted with flowers. Of course, these people had ulterior motives.
5.Not following Colin Powell's doctrine of "overwhelming power". We needed at least 400,000 troops on the ground as General Eric Shineski advised.
6.Allowing looting and desecration of libraries, art museums, etc. Following Rummie's "stuff happens" ideology. This was the start of the violence in Iraq
7. Disbanding the army comprised mostly of Sunnis who then had no jobs and nothing to keep them occupied except attacking our troops and Shias.
8. Cronyism that fostered incompetence. Example: Putting a 20 something charge of the monetary system in Iraq because of of his political views. How does your opinion of Roe v Wade qualify you for a job of this magnitude. A prequisite for jobs was voting for bush.
8.As far as the media is concerned, the bushies are masters at PR. Remember Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman, the football player reported to killed by friendly fire.
Sure, OBL took someone's good idea and turned it into a plan, organized necessary activities and took a chance. One man, one chance. Yeah, right. There's a thousand bad guys out there with 10,000 bad ideas each to throw at us. Every day. Right now, the U.S. is sitting in the hottest pot of nasty any government and its military has ever sat in and it's the right place and it's doing the right thing. If the U.S. doesn't continue to eliminate terrorist activity where it lives then we can just forget about 'thinking about tomorrow', cause at some point it just ain't gonna come.
All I see the US doing is digging its own grave. The idiots running the Iraqicide have modeled a large scale version of the Beruit Barrackes and built the Green-Zone into a target that will destroy US troops and assets far in excess of anything to date when it is all blown down. We have built a Super Target to be handed a Super Loss when it is eliminated. But again we will hear idiots like Condi Rice mouthing, as after 9/11 -- Who could seen that coming?
If our top dogs start the Iran attacks before or because of that, it will only result in the "payback" attacks of the termination of a couple of major US ciites. Only upside of that it will end the little boys in Men's Suit dopey ambitions of Global Empire. But at what a loss of US.
But you are correct that every bomb we drop and bullet we shoot or even proxy through Israel creates more hate and fuel against US. Think this path is going to turn out well?
The whole embedded reporter thing was a joke to begin with. There was absolutely no objectivity in their reporting. They were basically cheerleaders for the US military. To get any clear analysis you had to go international for the news.
Well,I'll just say like someone else pointed out,remember our strategic invasion of the U.S.S.R and how we won the war on Communists and brought liberty and Democracy to the Eastern Bloc?Oh that's right,we didn't invade Russia,we let it topple on it's own by letting their people bring change from within.Or we used covert op's.
We did war Korea though,we beat them all the way to the China border then China entered and beat us all the way back to the South till we ended in a stalemate.
We did war Vietnam who were ready to loss millions for the cause of beating us.And we didn't go to war to its source USSR and China,We lost that.
We did war Japan..rightfully so with proper declaration though invasion of their homeland would have been a bloodbath again with them willing to lose every citizen to fight to the end.We had to wipe thousands upon thousands of their civilians out before they would surrender.We can beat a army,but you'll never beat a civilzation unwilling to surrender.
The war on terror is the same way,you can't fight a religion and hope for victory,every one you shoot down another will take there place....unless you are willing to wipe out an entire nation or region.Installing a friendly government,what makes people think that people there will allow it to stay?Go to war on the basis that they might attack us in the future?It is in America's interest to bring Democracy to there?Then you must admit then that is was fair and in the interests of the Soviets to bring Communism to Afghanistan?
If attacked,go after the ones directly responsible,do what you have to do and leave.If the government again attacks,go back and do it again.Or use covert operations to undermine and neutralize potential enemies but not by taking over a entire country thinking that you can just prop up a government and the natives will just accept it.
I at first supported Iraq,I trusted the leaders when they said that there was WMD there and I was caught up in anger over 9-11...haven't seen WMD's yet and even though the Clinton admin might have said also there was,when we actually went there no real evidence was found.You may say "well what are we suppose to do,wait for a nuke to go off on our soil before we do something?"...well yes,when attacked then we are in the just to retaliate,and or at least us covert op's to prevent it ahead of time.
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