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Old 04-21-2012, 11:10 AM
 
2,399 posts, read 4,207,418 times
Reputation: 1301

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
No offense, but the cross may mean something to you, but there are billions of people on this planet for whom it means nothing...or even means violation, infringement of rights, suffering, bigotry, oppression...

While I think the condom on the crosses thing was in very poor taste, so was the display in the first place.

Your cross is precious to you and no one else. Try to wrap your head around that. People who are classy and tolerant and respectful and not threatened will leave you and your cross alone. People who feel you are using this symbol to oppress them will not.
I doubt that you'd say the same for a menorah. Only Christian symbols, right?

Erecting the cross is in poor taste? Where do you get this thinking? The greatest sacrifice the world has ever known, and you call a symbol of that "in poor taste"?
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,216,996 times
Reputation: 73924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
I doubt that you'd say the same for a menorah. Only Christian symbols, right?

Erecting the cross is in poor taste? Where do you get this thinking? The greatest sacrifice the world has ever known, and you call a symbol of that "in poor taste"?
Nope. Menorah means nothing to me, either. But I do appreciate that these things do mean something to other people. I am just pointing out that it's no one else's obligation to appreciate or respect your religion even though I do.

I love god. I love my personal relationship with god. I fit the definition of a good christian (in how I live and treat others) more than most christians.

But your icons mean nothing to me. Your arrogance does nothing to engender good feelings.

I appreciate everyone's right to freely worship. Ramming your agenda down people's throats and going on and on about some fictional sacrifice as a justification for bad behavior isn't a particularly convincing argument.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:14 AM
 
8,560 posts, read 6,396,786 times
Reputation: 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
"Western Kentucky University officials said they are investigating allegations that campus police refused to stop students from placing condoms on hundreds of crosses that had been set up as part of a massive student pro-life display."

"As many as 4,000 crosses had been erected ... by Hilltoppers For Life, a student-led pro-life group. The students had applied for and had received permission from the university to create the display...And late Thursday night Sohl and his brother found two people dressed in black vandalizing the display."They were putting condoms on every single cross in our display,” Sohl told Fox News. “She said she was doing it for an art project. She was desecrating the crosses for class credit.”

"Sohl called campus police – but they refused to intervene – citing First Amendment concerns."


Campus Police Allow Students to Desecrate Crosses | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes


I think mandatory enrollment in a course on the Constitution and the real meaning of Free Speech is in line for the Campus Police. Although, judging by the reports of other members of the faculty here, I doubt you'd be able to find such a course on this campus.

Who says there isn't a war on religion?
There's no war on religion.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:15 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,326,146 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
Ray, it's very odd that you would say that, considering that this THREAD involves a religious aspect, and I'm merely speaking my point on it.

It seems that leftists like yourself only want conservatives and members of faith to talk about their faith on "religion-specific" forums, but if the leftists desire to speak negatively of Christianity, it's okay. For to defend Christianity is tantamount of giving a sermon.

Illogical point of view designed to strip debate and control the discussion.
When you throw in multiple bible verses, invoke your faith in Jesus, and encourage others to believe in your Jesus - it's a sermon, not a defense of Christianity.

FWIW, using Christianity to defend Christianity is like defining word in terms of itself, which generally results in a useless definition.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 15,146,736 times
Reputation: 3614
Just shows how intolerant some religious folks can be.
What happened to truing the other cheek or forgiving those who trespass against us?

So If I draw a cross on a piece of paper then crumple it up and throw it away, I have desecrated a religious symbol?
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:19 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,326,146 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
I doubt that you'd say the same for a menorah. Only Christian symbols, right?

Erecting the cross is in poor taste? Where do you get this thinking? The greatest sacrifice the world has ever known, and you call a symbol of that "in poor taste"?
This post is a perfect example of knee jerk, born again thinking. To an atheist, both the Mennorah and the Cross are equally meaningless. And, again, try to argue your point without invoking the tenets of your faith, because they are also meaningless to a non-believer.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,216,996 times
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I am not an atheist.
Or a liberal.
Or even particularly pro-choice.

I am anti wacko religious right.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:26 AM
 
2,399 posts, read 4,207,418 times
Reputation: 1301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
You obviously don't know how the law works. Something must fit all legal criteria to constitute murder. By law, a fetus is not a person, abortion is not unlawful, and it's rarely done with malice. Therefore it by law, is not murder. It's the termination of a pregnancy.
Oh really. A fetus is not a person? Only to those individuals who wish it weren't so. Science says otherwise.

Abortion should be unlawful and is in many countries.

Abortion is done with malice.

Malice
Law The intent, without just cause or reason, to commit a wrongful act that will result in harm to another.

Abortion is generally without cause. It is a wrongful act, and it does result in harm to another. Thus, it is malicious.

Quote:
Depends on what stage the pregnancy is in. Destroying a Zygote isn't what I'd call killing. By your logic, masturbation is the murder of hundreds of millions of potential children.
Is a zygote, given that miscarriage doesn't happen (1 in 5 chance), not going to develop into a full-fledged human being?

You do realize that at only six weeks from conception, the baby has a heart beat. Development happens rapidly, and it's a lot sooner than most of you pro-'choicers' believe it to be.

Would you say that it is wrong to kill an unborn child at this stage?

Quote:
I don't view an embryo or fetus as a child for starters. However, I don't agree with abortion except in cases of rape, incest, genetic disease/deformity, or health of the mother. And 3rd trimester abortions I completely oppose unless it will kill the mother.
Why would you support abortion at all? In terms of rape, was it the child's fault? Do you find it okay to abort a developed baby who happened to have been conceived from a rape. The child could be placed up for adoption.

Why do you not view an embryo or fetus as a child?

Let's go to some pictures.

Here's a baby at 12 weeks (Embryo/Fetus transition) (really 10 weeks from conception) Looks very human to me .

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4779362831434223&id=737082b9e887a 58076da8750d6c4c7f7&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ryansprag ue.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2012%2f01%2f12-week-baby.jpg (broken link)


How about 16 weeks
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4840385727957716&id=252a80b97aae1 b26f626b5cfed53ed25&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.godvoter. org%2fPhotos%2fabort-16weeks.jpg (broken link)

Looks like an unborn child to me.

Admit it, you're not seeing things realistically.

Quote:
However, I don't believe my views should be forced on women, especially since making abortion illegal doesn't stop abortion, it merely makes things worse.
No. It doesn't. Most abortions will stop, if it's outlawed. It's kind of the way abortion ballooned once it was made legal. About 90% of it will end if outlawed, probably a higher percentage than that.

Quote:
You also realize that 50% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortions right? If God hates abortion even at the moment of conception, why does He himself destroy at least half of all conceived children, usually before the woman even knows she's pregnant?
It's not 50%. It's around 20-25%, and that's God's decision. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,792,358 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
That's "art" to pro-abortion liberals. That's their mentality. That's what they embrace. And that's the future of this country. It's disgusting.
Talk about ungrateful twits..It is that cross that was the symbol of liberation..and liberals no longer know what liberation is..they seek to enslave.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:32 AM
 
2,399 posts, read 4,207,418 times
Reputation: 1301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
Except, everyone disagrees on what's righteous, even Christians. Therefore, it's self-righteous and arrogant to assume whatever you believe and chastise others for, is obviously correct and virtuous. You can believe you're right, and make suggestions based on your beliefs, but to claim whatever someone does that you don't agree with is automatically ungodly, is being self-righteous and judgmental.

Your beliefs are identical to the Pharisees that Jesus' criticized.
The Bible is clear about all of this.

What Jesus was speaking of when He was talking about the Pharisees is the placing of man's law on the same stand with God's law, and then pretending to be more righteous because of following man's laws. The modern-day equivalent would be tantamount to wearing your Sunday best, singing loudly for self glorification, closing your eyes during prayer, and then ridiculing those who wear jeans to church, as well as those who don't sing the loudest and who don't close their eyes during prayer.
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