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ONE CHILD'S LIFE..is more important than a billion dogs.
Really?
I think it is stupid to even make such a statement as it is apples to oranges.
But lets look at if it is even true.
How about comparing the value of a dog that saves lives, makes life bearable for the seriously disabled, etc to that of child murderers and rapists?
There have been recent threads in the parenting forum about children who are predators of other children. Are their lives really more valuable than a search and rescue dog who has saved dozens of lives?
Well dogs are known to get out once in a while it's what they do. The difference is a Pit can maim you or children. They are a powerful animal.
exactly like any large dog.
seems you guys are 0/10 or so now, and none of you can come up with a rational argument against the stats posted earlier? you just silently conceding that it is personal preference to support BSL, regardless of facts?
Rational argument? I said I would have shot a doberman or a pit bull. What's your beef? You think your pit bull would never hurt a fly I'm sure?? Let's hope so and hope that fly isn't a kid. If you have a "big dog" pit bull whatever you just upped the chances of your pet attacking somebody and hurting them. That alone makes you an irresponsible pet owner. Get a hamster.
breed specific legislation. in other words, "people shouldn't be allowed to own pit bulls," "pit bull owners should have to pay higher taxes/buy more insurance," etc, etc.
all of these ideas are spawned by people that don't understand animal psychology, and are putting others in danger if they are the owners of medium or large dogs or other large animals.
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Rational argument?
i'll let you know if i see it from you. not holding my breath.
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I said I would have shot a doberman or a pit bull. What's your beef?
you've said other things besides, many of which indicate that you are among the uninsightful people mentioned amove. i hope you don't own a dog, for your neighbors' sakes.
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You think your pit bull would never hurt a fly I'm sure?? Let's hope so and hope that fly isn't a kid.
my pit bull/boxer/hound mix has about as much chance of hurting a fly, cat, mouse, or kid as any other medium-sized active dog that is cared for and properly led.
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If you have a "big dog" pit bull whatever you just upped the chances of your pet attacking somebody and hurting them.
having a big dog does not "up the chances" of your pet attacking someone. big dogs are actually a lot less likely to attack someone on average.
big dogs can deal more damage, but that isn't specific to rottweilers, dobermans, and pit bulls. it includes retrievers, labs, and even collies and poodles.
by the way, my "evil pit bull" is medium-sized and weighs about 65 lbs. and she is lethal––if you are a cat or a squirrel or something. she is also fixed, which is something that the dogs in the articles you and momonkey linked to were not; 70% or more of dog attacks come from sexually intact dogs.
i'm pretty confident that my well-raised and well-cared for mutt is going to continue her life in a fairly obedient, passive role.
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That alone makes you an irresponsible pet owner. Get a hamster.
you know what they say about assumptions, don't you?
i'll stick with science and history as my indicators as to what i should do to be responsible, rather than the inane ramblings of an armchair pet expert. thanks anyway.
breed specific legislation. in other words, "people shouldn't be allowed to own pit bulls," "pit bull owners should have to pay higher taxes/buy more insurance," etc, etc.
all of these ideas are spawned by people that don't understand animal psychology, and are putting others in danger if they are the owners of medium or large dogs or other large animals.
i'll let you know if i see it from you. not holding my breath.
you've said other things besides, many of which indicate that you are among the uninsightful people mentioned amove. i hope you don't own a dog, for your neighbors' sakes.
my pit bull/boxer/hound mix has about as much chance of hurting a fly, cat, mouse, or kid as any other medium-sized active dog that is cared for and properly led.
having a big dog does not "up the chances" of your pet attacking someone. big dogs are actually a lot less likely to attack someone on average.
big dogs can deal more damage, but that isn't specific to rottweilers, dobermans, and pit bulls. it includes retrievers, labs, and even collies and poodles.
by the way, my "evil pit bull" is medium-sized and weighs about 65 lbs. and she is lethal––if you are a cat or a squirrel or something. she is also fixed, which is something that the dogs in the articles you and momonkey linked to were not; 70% or more of dog attacks come from sexually intact dogs.
i'm pretty confident that my well-raised and well-cared for mutt is going to continue her life in a fairly obedient, passive role.
you know what they say about assumptions, don't you?
i'll stick with science and history as my indicators as to what i should do to be responsible, rather than the inane ramblings of an armchair pet expert. thanks anyway.
So because you think your god is only a danger to cats and squirrels because it "only" wieghs sixty five pounds and has jaws that lock like vice grips is supposed to make children in the neighborhood safer if it gets out? Your "pretty" confident? Like I said "if" your dog ever does go after somebody you'll be in the paper like all the rest saying the same nonsense like it was the nicest dog in the world and it would never hurt a fly and on and on. I guess maiming a child is the only way you people will ever learn. Sad that it has to come to that.
I don't need to understand animal psychology or whatever other nonsense you want to throw out to have common sense. Sadly too many folks like you who think their dog won't hurt a fly don't have any and resort to nonsense arguments then the fallback, "It would never hurt a fly" while a kid is carted off to have his/her face sewn back together or scalp re attached. I would tell you the same thing I told my last neighbor, I ever see it out I'd shoot it.
I do and have owned dogs, cats, ducks, pot bellied pig, guinea pig, turtle, fish, chickens a whole lot of animals. Maybe if you were around em more you would realize they are what they are and not your best friend. Well at dinnertime they are.
i know you think you have a point here, but really you just keep reinforcing my own.
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Originally Posted by KUchief25
So because you think your god is only a danger to cats and squirrels because it "only" wieghs sixty five pounds and has jaws that lock like vice grips is supposed to make children in the neighborhood safer if it gets out?
my god has nothing to do with it. and my dog doesn't have vice-like jaws at all. she's a normal dog, dude. the sooner you can understand that pit bulls, and especially watered-down pit bull mixes, are normal dogs with normal dog capabilities and temperaments, the sooner you will find peace in life.
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Your "pretty" confident?
yes, because the numbers don't support your argument. you think that every pit bull is dangerous when compared to other medium and large dogs, because of more or less 60-70 headline "pit bull" attacks per year, many of which are not even actually pit bulls.
but in order to make that mental leap, you have to ignore, purposely or obliviously, the millions of pit bulls out there every year that don't hurt anyone, that go their entire lives without hurting anyone.
again, the numbers are not on your side even remotely. therefore, i am confident. it all boils down to simple addition.
+ spayed dog
+ careful/responsible owner
+ awareness of dog psychology/temperament
+ not treating dog like little human
+ physical and social activity
+ healthy diet
+ always on a leash or in a fenced yard
+ never leaving kids alone with medium or large dogs
+ etc, etc
--------------------------
= very low chances of ever having a problem.
that doesn't mean i don't need to be careful; on the contrary, looking at the above list shows that i am very careful. just as i would be if i owned a shepherd, poodle, mastiff, bully, lab, or any other dog that could harm others (which really includes all of them, with the accounts of lap dogs killing babies and small children).
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Like I said "if" your dog ever does go after somebody you'll be in the paper like all the rest saying the same nonsense like it was the nicest dog in the world and it would never hurt a fly and on and on.
nope. wrong again. your assumptions are not getting you anywhere. if my dog suddenly snapped and hurt someone, there would definitely have been signs, as there are in pretty much all dog attack situations.
the only real case of canine-human violence that can reasonably and accurately be called a complete surprise would be instances of canine rage syndrome, which is extremely rare, and contrary to popular opinion, isn't all that prevalent in pit bulls as compared to other breeds.
other than that, there are pretty much always signs. just because the humans are too uneducated or apathetic to see them doesn't mean that they don't exist. further, the humans' lack of understanding is not a fault of the dog.
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I guess maiming a child is the only way you people will ever learn. Sad that it has to come to that.
it doesn't, because the numbers don't back your claims at all. again, for every pit bull the even the media declares as a violent offender, there are hundeds of thousands of them that are perfectly peaceful. and that is going by the media's numbers, you know, the ones that keep printing the articles that are forming your uneducated opinion.
most pit bulls go their entire lives without hurting anyone. so you can claim, "it's just a matter of time," and "they always say they didn't see it coming," until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't change the fact that only a handful of them out of more than 10 million will hurt someone.
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I don't need to understand animal psychology or whatever other nonsense you want to throw out to have common sense.
yes, you do, and this is exactly what i am talking about. you common sense is what is causing the problem. calling ignorance common sense does not in any way change the fact that it hurts people––and dogs.
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Sadly too many folks like you who think their dog won't hurt a fly don't have any and resort to nonsense arguments then the fallback, "It would never hurt a fly" while a kid is carted off to have his/her face sewn back together or scalp re attached. I would tell you the same thing I told my last neighbor, I ever see it out I'd shoot it.
already covered, though as expected, you have failed so far to actually tackle the numbers, and i have no doubt that you will still steer clear of them.
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I do and have owned dogs, cats, ducks, pot bellied pig, guinea pig, turtle, fish, chickens a whole lot of animals. Maybe if you were around em more you would realize they are what they are and not your best friend. Well at dinnertime they are.
i have been around animals my whole life, so another one of your assumptions has been shot down. and you are still making my point for me about dog-human interaction.
it is precisely the ignorant "common sense" opinion of most people out there that is causing problems between dogs and humans. people treat dogs like they are family members and furry humans, rather than treating them like dogs.
people are too lazy and apathetic to take the time to learn about what their dog needs, and so their dog becomes anxious and stressed out, and eventually violent. this is a common pattern that flies under the radar because people are only concerned about blatant abuse, not just casual neglect. but it ends up having similarly dangerous consequences.
and this human apathy is affecting dogs of all breeds, not just pit bulls.
i am not deluding myself into thinking that you will actually read and digest any of this. so, if you are going to respond to anything, take the time to go over my earlier posts and answer these issues:
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Originally Posted by stycotl
i have a challenge for any of the BSL supporters out there that think pit bulls should all be euthanized/banned/extra regulated/etc. if you think you are pretty confident in your use of logic and reason, i'd be interested in hearing your defense of BSL and its associated repercussions in the face of the facts that i quote below.
i have yet to see any BSL supporters engage these facts; they usually just deflect with another news article that we have seen before and that probably isn't even a pit bull (upwards of 70% of pit bull identifications are estimated to be wrong), or with some horrifying personal experience with the dogs (though again, there is a large chance that it wasn't even a pit bull).
anybody up for it?
EDIT: to clarify, upwards of 70% of non-DNA pit bull identifications are wrong. DNA tests are so far the only reliable way of identifying the animal.
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Originally Posted by stycotl
even if we use the media's exaggerated and incorrect statistics, pit bulls are responsible for fewer than 7 fatal attacks and just over 60 serious attacks in the US every year.
take those 3-7 fatal pit bull attacks (depending on whether you believe the experts or the media), and compare that to the estimated total pit bull population of the US., which was predicted in 2009 to be somewhere around 10.6 million pit bulls, out of a total 54-78 million dogs in the country total. the media's liberal numbers even say that only one pit bull in 1.5 million will fatally bite someone, and one in 168,000 will seriously hurt someone. conservative estimates used by the professionals are obviously a lot less. that means that even by the liberal statistics of the media, 0.0006603774 percent of the pit bull population is involved in serious or fatal attacks every year in the US (although it is actually lower than that even because some of tallied attacks are made by the same dogs).
those are your numbers, ku. those are the numbers that the media uses in order to convince us that we have a pit bull problem. those are the numbers that are alarming people like you.
It's good that they're holding owners responsible, but I disagree with an entire breed being found "dangerous". I love pits, never been bitten by one, but there was that one Queensland Heeler that found my hand tasty...
****ty owners results in ****ty dogs. Good owners take the time to train and socialize their animals.
Exactly!
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Originally Posted by KUchief25
If all it takes is a good owner why don't more folks have bears and tigers and lions etc. as pets? There is a reason for that too.
How IGNORANT!!! Seriously, you want to TRY and compare wild animals with domesticated animals? Absurd.
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Originally Posted by KUchief25
Yep all the owners of pit bulls are bad owners??? Or only the ones who attack right? Like I said same line...........
"There've been no prior instances of this at all," Groce said. "It's like, Sissy, she would just jump up on your lap and lick your face, until we got the other puppy."
"Everybody gives a pit bull a bad name. It just depends on how they're raised," he said. "I think I raised them properly."
P*ss poor ownership! NEVER introduce a new puppy into the home on the current dogs turf. That screws everything up.
Crate and rotate, NILF and a firm but fair training is what all dog owners need, but pittys especially since they are SOOOO full of energy.
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Originally Posted by southbel
They're not inherently dangerous. It's the bad owners that train them to be dangerous that are inherently dangerous.
When I was about 3-4 years old, we found a stray. Brought it into the vet and it was so sick they had to put it down. Of course, at that age, I was devastated. A nice lady there offered my mother a free puppy (she was selling these puppies but gave us one for free). We went to her farm, picked out my puppy and named her Meatball (Spaghetti and Meatballs was my favorite dish ).
Turns out Meatball was a pit bull; we didn't even know at the time. She grew up with me. She was loyal, kind, and so, so gentle. She was scared of our cat and the vet but wouldn't hesitate to put herself in harm's way if it was to protect me. Once it was a water moccasin; she took the bite right on the top of her head. Almost died from it.
At 15, she got cancer and we cared for her until it got too painful; at that point we did the humane thing. So no, I don't believe pit bulls are inherently dangerous. Really crappy people have caused this moniker of a 'bad dog' because they have made them dangerous.
Awww! Damnit, you had me crying over here!
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Originally Posted by KUchief25
All you pit bull lovers prove my point. You'll be the next one up saying "Well Lordie Lord my little muffin never hurt a fly" as you see a child mauled in the street by your little angel.
Actually, I have fostered and rescued well over 20 pittys and not ONCE have we ever had a tooth intentionally touch human skin. Especially the former fighting dogs. They NEVER once showed ANY agression towards a human.
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Originally Posted by steven_h
Exactly right! These are the dog of choice to guard nefarious places. It all boills down to the master. If German Shepards were the dog of choice, we'd all be hearing about those dangerous shepards that have inherent violent tendencies. What a crock.
The nanny state with its infinite wisdom at work. Forward I say, FORWARD!
Which is absolutely ignorant considering the history of the breed and the genetics behind it. APBT were bred to have NO human agression and tons of ANIMAL agression. You see, an owner HAD to be able to put his hands and/or body on the dog in the middle of the fight w/o fear of being hurt by his dog. If a dog bit, they were culled, no questions. But then BYB's and idiots got ahold of intact dogs and started breeding them nilly willy not to mention breeding them with more human agressive breeds like mastiffs and Am bulldogs, and they eventually ended up with 100lb+ low slung big block headed pusdo pit bulls that are more prone to human agression.
You can NOT get these:
From THESE (w/o adding some extra stuff in there):
Seriously, I don't know how much the majority of you guys in here know about the very delicate art of canine breeding, but I know quite a bit about it. It is NOT NOT NOT for the average idiot in the neighbourhood.
Instead of those people looking at their pets like cash cows, they should leave the breeding to the people who know about it.
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Originally Posted by Trace21230
I think the law that needs to be passed is a prohibition against families with kids owning pits or pit mixes. If an adult wants to subject himself or herself to a ticking time bomb, that's fine. But what about the poor kids who are routinely mauled by pits?
Oh yes, because MORE damn Govermental intrusion into citizen's lives is exactly what we need. NOT!
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