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Old 05-04-2012, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863

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There is an alternative to both Crony Capitalism and Socialism. It is a business system that operates in a free and open market with no barriers to entry and no cushion for the losers. It is a system where all the “Natural Monopolies” such as electric, water, postal service are owned by the government and operated at cost and paid for by the users of the service. These may not be used to sequester private wealth away from market risk. It is also a system where military spending is not used to subsidize industry but is limited to what is needed to protect domestic investors from foreign invasion. The only exception would be part of an international effort to suppress piracy. Investors that put their money at risk in foreign lands do so at their own risk.

The Socialist segment would include a Universal Health Care and Universal Pension secure from the depredations of the private sector. Other socialist items would be universal education to whatever level the student qualified and guaranteed employment, with the government, if not private sector positions were available. This would result in a full employment environment for all that wanted to work. Both rich and poor shirkers could live on a minimum dole.

This would all be paid for by a progressive Income Tax on all income from all sources with a single deduction equal to the 90th percentile. In addition there would also be a private real estate and financial property tax of 3% on all holdings above the 90th percentile. Inheritance would be treated as direct income. In addition there would be countervailing tariffs set high enough to eliminate any financial advantage created by discrepancies in wages, working safety, government subsidy in the exporting country.

I believe the result of these proposals would be a robust capitalist business system free of monopolists and cronyism. While the strivers would be rewarded they would be encouraged to continue striving. The people working for the strivers would enjoy good wages and good economic security and retirement. In addition the tendency to form a socially and politically separate plutocracy based on business connections, education and inheritance would be effectively eliminated. The result would be real opportunity for All.

That is my alternative to our current unjust system based on Cronyism and market Monopoly. Denmark has real prosperity while ours has been hollowed out by the big Business thieve that own and are the Republican Party. They take the wealth created by workers and small business and, by using the Congress they control, steal it for the "lazy shiftless dregs on society" called their children and grand children.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
The only reason history considers Churchill to be a Great Leader and Hero of the Western (Tory) World is he literally wrote the book. The man was an indulged drunk and his politics were aristocratic and imperial. The first was foolish and the latter dispicable.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:38 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,975,697 times
Reputation: 4555
Most educated countries. Almost all would be considered "socialist" according to these right wing know nothings.

Education Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,817,540 times
Reputation: 9400
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Crony Capitalism, is a form of socialism called fascism.
We have that in Canada. Our courts suck- our educational system teaches kids to be submissive and never question government. Everyone is supposed to be equal..............YET- we have these dark old characters that sit in our bank towers who hold billions of dollars and they do not pay much in tax.


Once I asked this old banker about another tycoon who was of German heritage and had a car parts business...."Is it true that Joe got his start with the help of old Nazi money?"----------------------His answer was YES...simple and direct....Fascism exists- we just don't talk about it. People are afraid of the old fascists with a lot of corporate clout..They are arrogant-atheistic and will hurt you if you **** them off.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:54 AM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,975,697 times
Reputation: 4555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
We have that in Canada. Our courts suck- our educational system teaches kids to be submissive and never question government. Everyone is supposed to be equal..............YET- we have these dark old characters that sit in our bank towers who hold billions of dollars and they do not pay much in tax.


Once I asked this old banker about another tycoon who was of German heritage and had a car parts business...."Is it true that Joe got his start with the help of old Nazi money?"----------------------His answer was YES...simple and direct....Fascism exists- we just don't talk about it. People are afraid of the old fascists with a lot of corporate clout..They are arrogant-atheistic and will hurt you if you **** them off.
And the best thing you could do in Canada to help assist these old Tycoons is to disparage your educational system that instills some sense of national equality.

They'd love to have a nation of uneducated peons like the USA to use and abuse.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
OB - Way too true. This is why we have our plutocracy. Old money will fight any threat by any means. Who do you think is backing Romney?
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Murika
2,526 posts, read 3,004,262 times
Reputation: 1929
Whether you like it or not - no society functions without social principles.

Socialism simply argues for the distribution of responsibility amongst those who can bear it best. To minimize abuse, governing of those principles is usually placed under the oversight of the general population, i.e., a representation of such (usually a freely elected government).

While this may not be fair, the reality is that without such distribution nobody's life will be better, unless you have a society of a few who have all rights and many who have none. While government oversight might also not be the best solution, this is hardly a problem of socialism as a principle as it is a problem of individual greed within government and the tendency to re-elect "officials" even if they have been shown to be corrupt.

Even the most staunch capitalist system MUST rely on social principles to ensure functioning.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:53 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,204 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
There is an alternative to both Crony Capitalism and Socialism. It is a business system that operates in a free and open market with no barriers to entry and no cushion for the losers. It is a system where all the “Natural Monopolies” such as electric, water, postal service are owned by the government and operated at cost and paid for by the users of the service. These may not be used to sequester private wealth away from market risk. It is also a system where military spending is not used to subsidize industry but is limited to what is needed to protect domestic investors from foreign invasion. The only exception would be part of an international effort to suppress piracy. Investors that put their money at risk in foreign lands do so at their own risk.

The Socialist segment would include a Universal Health Care and Universal Pension secure from the depredations of the private sector. Other socialist items would be universal education to whatever level the student qualified and guaranteed employment, with the government, if not private sector positions were available. This would result in a full employment environment for all that wanted to work. Both rich and poor shirkers could live on a minimum dole.

This would all be paid for by a progressive Income Tax on all income from all sources with a single deduction equal to the 90th percentile. In addition there would also be a private real estate and financial property tax of 3% on all holdings above the 90th percentile. Inheritance would be treated as direct income. In addition there would be countervailing tariffs set high enough to eliminate any financial advantage created by discrepancies in wages, working safety, government subsidy in the exporting country.

I believe the result of these proposals would be a robust capitalist business system free of monopolists and cronyism. While the strivers would be rewarded they would be encouraged to continue striving. The people working for the strivers would enjoy good wages and good economic security and retirement. In addition the tendency to form a socially and politically separate plutocracy based on business connections, education and inheritance would be effectively eliminated. The result would be real opportunity for All.

That is my alternative to our current unjust system based on Cronyism and market Monopoly. Denmark has real prosperity while ours has been hollowed out by the big Business thieve that own and are the Republican Party. They take the wealth created by workers and small business and, by using the Congress they control, steal it for the "lazy shiftless dregs on society" called their children and grand children.
When government is involved, "at cost" = Infinity.

We are far better off here, thank you very much. I don't know where you get your assessment of what state America is in, but I would stay out of that stall. Find another one, and perhaps quit reading what some jackballs write on bathroom stall walls completely. Try going out in the real world, where millions succeed on a perpetual basis.

Admittedly, things are a bit tough with Obama and his crony-types running roughshod, but he will be gone in January, and America will go back to being, well, America.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:04 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,204 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
Whether you like it or not - no society functions without social principles.

Socialism simply argues for the distribution of responsibility amongst those who can bear it best. To minimize abuse, governing of those principles is usually placed under the oversight of the general population, i.e., a representation of such (usually a freely elected government).

While this may not be fair, the reality is that without such distribution nobody's life will be better, unless you have a society of a few who have all rights and many who have none. While government oversight might also not be the best solution, this is hardly a problem of socialism as a principle as it is a problem of individual greed within government and the tendency to re-elect "officials" even if they have been shown to be corrupt.

Even the most staunch capitalist system MUST rely on social principles to ensure functioning.
Your observations do have some limited value.

Socialism is appropriate in one place, and one place alone - the family unit. Beyond that, it has no rightful or proper home, and those that try to twist it to fit other situations will perpetually be attempting to the the societal equivalent of sticking a square peg into a round hole.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:07 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,204 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The only reason history considers Churchill to be a Great Leader and Hero of the Western (Tory) World is he literally wrote the book. The man was an indulged drunk and his politics were aristocratic and imperial. The first was foolish and the latter dispicable.
ASSinine post, in the extreme. He went toe to toe with Hitler and won, When touring "the front' he outpaced his entourage who could barely keep up. Once again, your hatred of all that is good, is on full display. Next, you'll be singing the praises of 'dolf.
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