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Old 05-04-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,722,892 times
Reputation: 12341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
And if corps pay little tax, then there is no break for offshoring jobs. Which way is it?
As you can see, tax rates isn't why corporations offshore.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,566,204 times
Reputation: 24857
MOKAN - I explained my vision on another thread yesterday. It included an industrial policy as well as tax proposals.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:11 PM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,750,375 times
Reputation: 8437
Just wanted to note that I don't agree with the OP. I am an independent and have a lot of friends, family and associates who are both liberal and conservative and a few like me in the middle.

Most of my liberal friends are hardcore buy American types. They are actually rather hippie and are into self sufficiency. They ride bikes from bike stores where bikes costs $400 plus and despise China bikes that are cheaper, yet poorly made in their eyes. They are more likely to not shop at Walmart and shop more at local grocery stores, organic stores, and specialty markets, most of which support local (American) businesses.

The liberals I know in regards to their spending habits, especially the high income, highly educated liberals that the OP spoke of are the people who I see most often buy American made goods and local organic produce. Many of the liberal moms I know refused to buy store brand milk after hearing of the hormones given to dairy cows and their crusade eventually led to many large chain stores, including Walmart to stop buying milk from dairies who used those hormones.

In comparison, the conservatives I know are more likely to shop at Walmart for cheap China stuff. Most do not eat locally grown foods or shop at specialty, organic markets due to the costs of the food and other items. I admit most of them drive gas guzzling American made SUVs but pretty much all their other purchases are cheap imported stuff compared to the liberals I know. I admit most of the liberals I know drive a Toyota Prius or a VW bug. A lot of them though drive smaller American cars like the Chevy Cruze or similar now that there are American cars with higher MPG ratings. Liberals are also more likely to live in cities IME versus the burbs so it always doesn't make sense to me when my conservative friends refuse to even consider giving up their SUVs for a better rated car on MPGs yet still complain about how Obama is raising gas prices.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,777,005 times
Reputation: 7800
Don't bother me with factual data...I just want to feel good.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:12 PM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,694,723 times
Reputation: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
I agree in this day and age, it's the democrats and those on the left that are really carrying the "Live american, buy american" mantra.

Those on the right seem to applaud the failures of american companies, and were calling for the extermination of american icons like chrysler and GM

The right wingers look at buying american made products as somehow a bad thing.
Your assessment is way off. The auto company problems were self inflicted. And they are now turning things around because they went back to the basics. Make a good product that people want to buy.
The applause you think you heard is more like disgust. There's no reason why American products and companies can't be competitive. But, when greedy people (i.e. CEO's, union bosses, lawyers, etc.) take advantage of patriotic citizens then they don't deserve our business.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:16 PM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,694,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
I bought a coffee cup from a lesser known "liberal" media organization, I paid a lot more for this coffee cup because I knew much of the cost would go towards keeping their excellent journalism on the air. I was so pleased to see "Made in the U.S.A." on the bottom of the cup. It's so rare. I also bought a pair of steel toed boots and chose the most expensive pair, Thorogood's, because they are Made in the U.S.A.

I always look first for American made goods and have only once owned a foreign made car, a Mitsubishi back in the 90's. It remains probably the best car I've ever owned, however. I look forward to the arrival of the Dodge Dart this year, made in Belvidere, Illinois. I am shopping for American made cars right now, but have not found anything that really excites me. I continue to look.
Good points. But, the underlying message here is that the American products are not in demand.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:19 PM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,694,723 times
Reputation: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
As a liberal/progressive, I would say that the premise isn't quite that simple. The idea I support is that businesses be chartered to work in the interests of the country they rely on, not the other way around, that the country can rely on businesses, when it comes to governance and policies.

A problem we have to learn to deal with, is that countries on the rise, and many developed countries emphasize not only on cheap labor, but have taken a pragmatic approach which involves the greatest resource of all: qualified, well educated, unburdened with debt human resource.

We also have to deal with interest groups. Back in the 1970s and following the oil crisis, a movement started to look for alternate sources of energy. And of course, there was a push back from the establishment. It was easier to stick with what people thought they could rely on (oil). Meanwhile, it was in the 1980s and 1990s that Europeans and Asians recognized the demands into the future.

A few days ago, I watched Stephen Colbert interview Elon Musk (co-founder of PayPal, and Tesla Motors and now, SpaceX). His argument reflected much of of the above. Entrepreneurs like him look forward, into what the society is bound to progress into, not in what is cheap and easy today. We seem to be lagging in that area. Consequently, we're not just having to compete with other nations that are pragmatic and are building resources, but we're actually falling behind.

When we look at what is bound to be an issue of the future, we end up finding solutions and businesses interested coming from Europe and Asia... because they didn't stop advancing and have the infrastructure to build upon. THAT is what we used to have, besides little to no competition in post-WWII era.

Pushing for "Buy American" ain't the solution. Making Americans produces goods that can compete on its own strengths is what we need.
Good post (for a liberal/progressive)
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:24 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,908,520 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Just wanted to note that I don't agree with the OP. I am an independent and have a lot of friends, family and associates who are both liberal and conservative and a few like me in the middle.

Most of my liberal friends are hardcore buy American types. They are actually rather hippie and are into self sufficiency. They ride bikes from bike stores where bikes costs $400 plus and despise China bikes that are cheaper, yet poorly made in their eyes. They are more likely to not shop at Walmart and shop more at local grocery stores, organic stores, and specialty markets, most of which support local (American) businesses.

The liberals I know in regards to their spending habits, especially the high income, highly educated liberals that the OP spoke of are the people who I see most often buy American made goods and local organic produce. Many of the liberal moms I know refused to buy store brand milk after hearing of the hormones given to dairy cows and their crusade eventually led to many large chain stores, including Walmart to stop buying milk from dairies who used those hormones.

In comparison, the conservatives I know are more likely to shop at Walmart for cheap China stuff. Most do not eat locally grown foods or shop at specialty, organic markets due to the costs of the food and other items. I admit most of them drive gas guzzling American made SUVs but pretty much all their other purchases are cheap imported stuff compared to the liberals I know. I admit most of the liberals I know drive a Toyota Prius or a VW bug. A lot of them though drive smaller American cars like the Chevy Cruze or similar now that there are American cars with higher MPG ratings. Liberals are also more likely to live in cities IME versus the burbs so it always doesn't make sense to me when my conservative friends refuse to even consider giving up their SUVs for a better rated car on MPGs yet still complain about how Obama is raising gas prices.
Wow. You just described me, except I actually live in the country, but I still bike to work. I used to ride a cannondale, but then they started making it overseas so I switched to a trek. I think it is the only bike made here.

I do my absolute best to buy american products and most of the liberals that I know do the same. You can't confuse Democrat with liberal. There are many democrats that shop at Walmart, but no self respecting Liberal would shop there...if they have a choice.

I spend more for piece of mind.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,423,623 times
Reputation: 21673
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Wow. You just described me, except I actually live in the country, but I still bike to work. I used to ride a cannondale, but then they started making it overseas so I switched to a trek. I think it is the only bike made here.
Treks are made in Taiwan, except for their best ones, like the Madone, the same one Lance rode, those are made in Wisconsin. There are smaller bike companies making them in the U.S. (like Waterford, also out of Wisconsin) but they cost more. They also last a lifetime. You get what you pay for with U.S. made products. Caterpillar, for example, makes most of its earth moving equipment in the U.S. and is the industry leader, but they are also the most expensive. People in remote locations want good equipment, not something they saved money on, only to have it break down in the middle of nowhere.

BTW, have not been in a Wal Mart for over a decade.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:02 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,606 posts, read 7,473,726 times
Reputation: 2544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
We all know liberals have a lot of political energy to expend - or in otherwords are just very political. Liberalism does seem to have a strong following and influence on young people and those who are highly educated (and thus have a lot of disposable income). So, my thought is: what if liberals as a group took on a strong effort and rhetoric toward buying American? With the amount of political energy they display and many wrapping their way of life and indentity around their politics, I tend to think they could really turn this country around by doing one simple thing: buying American. I know there is a small faction of union-related, working-class Democrats that live by this philosophy, but they just aren't enough to make what could be a much bigger impact. One thing that brought this idea to mind is that I recently saw one of my local politicians (Kay Barnes) driving around in her Mercedes E-class from Germany. Also, I had the thought when Romney said his wife drives "a couple of Cadillacs" that at least they're American! All in all, it seems to me that Republicans are more into buying American than Democrats, which sort of seems backwards, depending on your political beliefs.

What do you think?
I lived in a small town in Texas once. They were big on promoting shop and buy local, to help boost their local economy and businesses. Makes sense.

It would work to for Americans, but Americans don't want to do it.

Changing the economy for the better would only happen if you lock it all down and reel the money back in, but America is too busy trying to build a global paradise for that to happen any time soon, if at all.
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